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TOPIC: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch

Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch 7 years 6 months ago #1

UPDATE: 8/3/2014. Made some slight changes or clarifications which are in RED. Official FAQ and other documents will be available soon.

Working with my sinister minions, we have developed some first draft effects for the Amulet of Wonder, Eldritch Runestone, and UR Special, for this year's True Grind. These are subject to change.

But I wanted to post them to get some potential feedback:


Amulet of Wonder: In honor of JimC and his Eldritch Doubler artifact, the Amulet of Wonder may copy the powers of any Common or Uncommon token that is not a weapon, torso slot, instrument, charged, or consumable. Class restrictions and slot placement of the copied token are ignored. Once per room, as a free action, the AoW may change form by copying a different Common or Uncommon token (same restrictions), losing the powers of the prior Common or Uncommon token. This remains as long as the character is conscious and able to control the ability, and the player remembers what is currently being copied. In all cases, someone in the party must have an actual copy of the Common or Uncommon token being copied.

Eldritch Runestone: Once during the adventure, when an attack (or other spell or ability) would affect you, you may redirect that portion of the effect to another player or monster. Keep in mind a monster's (or player's) resistances and immunities. If the effect requires a saving throw, you must choose whether or not to redirect it before the saving throw (and if sent to a new target, they get to make a saving throw).

UR Special: Pending Jeff's approval, a player who uses a UR Special gains the ability to play a Prestige sub-class (the same ones as from the RoSP) for any of his or her True Grind events during GenCon 2014. When using the RoSP, choosing a Prestige class replaces the base class (i.e. you can't have both) but if a player uses the UR Special to play a Prestige class another player can still choose the base class.

- Given the difficulty of getting Grind tickets, not sure whether it would be better to have the UR Special last for all of GenCon or whether it should apply to only a single Grind event.

We will lean towards being generous. If a UR Special is used for Grind, the ability to use a Prestige class will last for all of GenCon 2014 and can be used for any Grinds you play (but this does not apply to normal dungeons).

- Haven't figured out how to handle the possibility of multiple people wanting to play the same Prestige class. (e.g. two players both using UR Specials and both want to play the same Prestige class, or one UR Special player and one RoSP player wanting the same Prestige class).

Now that we have seen the Prestige classes and they seem balanced, if people really want to use UR Specials, they can double/triple/quadruple up on Prestige classes. So while only one player can choose a Bard, if the 9 other players want to use UR Specials and have 9 Troubadours, then more power to you! While such a thing wouldn't be feasible in normal adventures, Grind DM's can handle it if you really want to do it!


So please post any feedback or thoughts about these potential effects. And feel free to ask any questions.

Thanks!

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Last edit: by Incognito.

Re: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch 7 years 6 months ago #2

i like the runestone :evil:
delpchad.blogspot.com/

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Re: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch 7 years 6 months ago #3

Incognito wrote: When using the RoSP, choosing a Prestige class replaces the base class (i.e. you can't have both) but if a player uses the UR Special to play a Prestige class another player can still choose the base class.

I have serious reservations about this.
  1. This would be a pain to record on the party card. All the base stats are pre-built onto the card. This would throw the pre-printed stats out the window.
  2. Adventures are designed assuming 10 different classes are present. Do you really want to make it possible for 2 each of barbarians, clerics, druids, rogues, and wizards to do a run? (insert whatever grotesque combination you can think of, I just pulled those out of my hiney)
  3. See below.

Incognito wrote: not sure whether it would be better to have the UR Special last for all of GenCon or whether it should apply to only a single Grind event.

I would say a single event, no question. Con-long would be overpowered and a pain to track.

Incognito wrote: how to handle the possibility of multiple people wanting to play the same Prestige class

I think it should be handled like any other class choice conflict. 3rd-level or higher player takes precedence. If that doesn't resolve it, they need to act like grown ups and decide for themselves. Roll a die, flip a token, roshambo, or whatever is necessary and efficient. I see this as another reason to not allow duplicate classes, sub or otherwise.
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections/suggestions in this thread .
If I write something in teal, it should not be taken seriously

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Re: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch 7 years 6 months ago #4

Druegar wrote:

Incognito wrote: When using the RoSP, choosing a Prestige class replaces the base class (i.e. you can't have both) but if a player uses the UR Special to play a Prestige class another player can still choose the base class.

I have serious reservations about this.
  1. This would be a pain to record on the party card. All the base stats are pre-built onto the card. This would throw the pre-printed stats out the window.
  2. Adventures are designed assuming 10 different classes are present. Do you really want to make it possible for 2 each of barbarians, clerics, druids, rogues, and wizards to do a run? (insert whatever grotesque combination you can think of, I just pulled those out of my hiney)
  3. See below.

Incognito wrote: not sure whether it would be better to have the UR Special last for all of GenCon or whether it should apply to only a single Grind event.

I would say a single event, no question. Con-long would be overpowered and a pain to track.

Incognito wrote: how to handle the possibility of multiple people wanting to play the same Prestige class

I think it should be handled like any other class choice conflict. 3rd-level or higher player takes precedence. If that doesn't resolve it, they need to act like grown ups and decide for themselves. Roll a die, flip a token, roshambo, or whatever is necessary and efficient. I see this as another reason to not allow duplicate classes, sub or otherwise.

i dont think it would be a pain to tack the special..there are not many left

as for the prestige class..it is Grind, so regular coaches wont have to deal with it
If jeff announces the classes ahead of time there really wont be much to track..aside from crossing off the monk and making Burglar and using rogue spot for the rogue..I am confident the grind Dms can handle this

i am a little lost on the AoW effect...so it cant be armor..or weapon...has to be common..i think with it being UR it should be a bit more(what I dont know)
delpchad.blogspot.com/

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Re: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch 7 years 6 months ago #5

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I love both the UR special & rune stone effect but I'm not really seeing benefit of the AOW. After you eliminate gold, weapons/armor, and consumable(assuming you cant consume the amulet round after round) there isn't really much left at common. Maybe I'm missing something.

Also just wondering, does anyone have any idea of how many UR specials we suspect are still out there?
Semper Gumby, Always flexible.

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Last edit: by Picc.

Re: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch 7 years 6 months ago #6

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:
i am a little lost on the AoW effect...so it cant be armor..or weapon...has to be common..i think with it being UR it should be a bit more(what I dont know)


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Last edit: by Harlax.

Re: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch 7 years 6 months ago #7

Restricting the AoW to commons only is pretty limited. Off the top of my head I can't think of a senerio where i'd use it. If I understand it correctly this would let me use an extra common shield, helm, bracer, belt or boots all of which are pretty limited. Net effect is from +1ac to +2 fort saves with some possibility to avoid enviornmental effects.

Why not something like,
Once per room Allows the doubleing of a common or uncommon consumable.
Pretty easy to adjudicate because you just double what the token says to do and nothing else to remember except how many times they use it.


p.s.
please create a Room Tracker, could just be a flip card with room numbers on it. Its easy for players to forget what room they are in and this would give the oppertunity for new room items to be triggered.
Sweet a combat room, we won't take damage!

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Re: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch 7 years 6 months ago #8

Picc wrote: I love both the UR special & rune stone effect but I'm not really seeing benefit of the AOW. After you eliminate gold, weapons/armor, and consumable(assuming you cant consume the amulet round after round) there isn't really much left at common. Maybe I'm missing something.

Also just wondering, does anyone have any idea of how many UR specials we suspect are still out there?

i have 4 ..i know someone else who has two..so that is 6
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Re: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch 7 years 6 months ago #9

I know of 2 more. But those are collected, not for use.
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Re: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch 7 years 6 months ago #10

I have one special.
*mental note* always listen to Jeff

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Re: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch 7 years 6 months ago #11

Druegar wrote:

  • This would be a pain to record on the party card. All the base stats are pre-built onto the card. This would throw the pre-printed stats out the window.
  • Adventures are designed assuming 10 different classes are present. Do you really want to make it possible for 2 each of barbarians, clerics, druids, rogues, and wizards to do a run? (insert whatever grotesque combination you can think of, I just pulled those out of my hiney)
  • See below.
  • [/ol]

    I would say a single event, no question. Con-long would be overpowered and a pain to track.

    I think it should be handled like any other class choice conflict. 3rd-level or higher player takes precedence. If that doesn't resolve it, they need to act like grown ups and decide for themselves. Roll a die, flip a token, roshambo, or whatever is necessary and efficient. I see this as another reason to not allow duplicate classes, sub or otherwise.

    The thing with the UR Special, is that it is highly unlikely to actually be relevant.

    Historically, there has never been a UR Special used for True Grind. And ever since the Mithral Coin of Fate in 2012, I doubt a UR Special is going to ever be used in Grind. So every year, I try to come up with a cool idea for the Grind Special UR, with the understanding that it probably won't see the light of day. It also becomes an interesting thought experiment - trying to see how much of a benefit the effect has to be to actually convince someone to use a Special UR (hence my tendency towards being on the generous side of things).

    For there to be a party with 2 barbarians, clerics, druids, rogues, and wizards (I guess the same type of wizard), 5 players would need to turn in UR Specials. I find that *highly* unlikely. But hey if they want to do that, then more power to them!

    Yes, ideally parties should be limited to a max of 1 per character class, but it's not the end of the world if things don't work out that way.

    For example, two situations that happened earlier this year at the Who's Yer Con Grind illustrate possible scenarios:

    1. In one Grind, we somehow ended up with TWELVE (12) players. In order to avoid a 10-minute delay to redo the party card, we simply allowed there to be two extra fighters. So of the 12 players, there was 1 Dwarf Fighter and 3 normal Fighters.

    2. In another situation, two very experienced, tokenholic, well-known forumites, couldn't amicably decide who should be Druid. Since the coaching time was rapidly running out, to avoid a time delay and to prevent anyone from sulking during the whole event, I made an executive decision to allow both to play Druid. This was an exceptional situation which should NOT be the norm. But it wasn't the end of the world having a duplicate class.

    lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: i dont think it would be a pain to tack the special..there are not many left

    as for the prestige class..it is Grind, so regular coaches wont have to deal with it
    If jeff announces the classes ahead of time there really wont be much to track..aside from crossing off the monk and making Burglar and using rogue spot for the rogue..I am confident the grind Dms can handle this

    Yeah, since I will be DM'ing every Grind and the number of people using a UR Special will probably be countable with a single hand (if there are any at all), it shouldn't be hard to keep track of.

    We will have to see when Jeff makes the details of the Prestige class available, but as Lazlo mentioned, I'm sure the Grind team can handle it.

    lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: i am a little lost on the AoW effect...so it cant be armor..or weapon...has to be common..i think with it being UR it should be a bit more(what I dont know)

    Picc wrote: I love both the UR special & rune stone effect but I'm not really seeing benefit of the AOW. After you eliminate gold, weapons/armor, and consumable(assuming you cant consume the amulet round after round) there isn't really much left at common. Maybe I'm missing something.

    valetutto wrote: Restricting the AoW to commons only is pretty limited. Off the top of my head I can't think of a senerio where i'd use it. If I understand it correctly this would let me use an extra common shield, helm, bracer, belt or boots all of which are pretty limited. Net effect is from +1ac to +2 fort saves with some possibility to avoid enviornmental effects.

    Okay, let's add Uncommon to the pool of options. So you can duplicate any Common or Uncommon. Though I added the restriction of no instruments (to avoid questions of whether you can stack different bard instruments).

    The idea is that it can help address many environmental effects that might be encountered.

    As an example, in 2011 the AoW effect was to turn you into a merman which lets you ignore all of the underwater rules/restriction. Hypothetically, I could just do a "AoW means you ignore environmental rules" but that just feels lazy IMO. With the duplication mechanism, you can still ignore most (if not all) environmental rules, but now it actually requires some thought and preparation.

    valetutto wrote: p.s. please create a Room Tracker, could just be a flip card with room numbers on it. Its easy for players to forget what room they are in and this would give the oppertunity for new room items to be triggered.

    I LOVE this idea! Very nice!

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    Last edit: by Incognito.

    Re: Tentative Grind 2014 Effects for AoW/UR?/Eldritch 7 years 6 months ago #12

    darkangel866 wrote: I know of 2 more. But those are collected, not for use.

    are we talking about the same person..he who is a healer and doesnt heal?
    delpchad.blogspot.com/

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