TOPIC: No Nightmare/Hardocore runs listed

Mike Steele wrote:

Kaledor wrote: Why hardcore? Go all the way and do Nightmare... more fun and risk!

My group found the several years of nightmare dungeons to be too difficult and extremely frustrating, and in fact a number of members of our group quit over the last few years because of nightmare. That's why we are only doing two runs this year. Hardcore last year on the other hand last year was very enjoyable, right in our sweet spot for difficulty.

My group isn't like most of the ones on the forums. Other than me, nobody in my group collects or knows the tokens, or visits the forums, or really gives True Dungeon any thought at all except when we're playing. They really are casual players, they enjoy it but if I weren't coordinating it I don't think any of them would continue playing TD.

I am in a similar boat. My 'group(s)' have no tokens and only think about TD at GenCon. That said I have amassed a bit of a collection of tokens. The plan for the 20 something people that fall in and out of my groups will be to do 4 complete runs. 2 Hardcore Combat and 2 Normal Puzzles. I think at some point I may have the tokens to equip 1 full party for NM but I am far from it at this point.

The issue is you get 8 tickets out of 10 (my group is 6 - 8) and that one gal/guy that comes in and says. No way I'm not doing Nightmare. There goes that fun and challenge. Not to mention xp.

Solution now is to purchase the whole run, proxie the 2 - 4 position for the HoP's... and just do it with 6 people. Waste of money but makes sure you get the Nightmare run.

Seth Murray wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Kaledor wrote: Why hardcore? Go all the way and do Nightmare... more fun and risk!

My group found the several years of nightmare dungeons to be too difficult and extremely frustrating, and in fact a number of members of our group quit over the last few years because of nightmare. That's why we are only doing two runs this year. Hardcore last year on the other hand last year was very enjoyable, right in our sweet spot for difficulty.

My group isn't like most of the ones on the forums. Other than me, nobody in my group collects or knows the tokens, or visits the forums, or really gives True Dungeon any thought at all except when we're playing. They really are casual players, they enjoy it but if I weren't coordinating it I don't think any of them would continue playing TD.

You do, however, have one of the best puzzle solvers I've ever seen.

True, Haley is incredible!

Kaledor wrote: The issue is you get 8 tickets out of 10 (my group is 6 - 8) and that one gal/guy that comes in and says. No way I'm not doing Nightmare. There goes that fun and challenge. Not to mention xp.

Solution now is to purchase the whole run, proxie the 2 - 4 position for the HoP's... and just do it with 6 people. Waste of money but makes sure you get the Nightmare run.

or use the forum. See if someone wants to play Xclass with your group on nightmare..if not, then use the proxie HoP spots

Hopefully this will encourage people to want to fill in those slots a bit more. I recall last year a few groups that were looking either returned unused tickets at the last moment or just ran short.

Can anyone refresh my memory as to how the proxying rules work. If I have 1 hop and wear 3 bracelets does the hop apply to all of them or do you need 1 hop for each bracelet?

The HoP (and the RoR, and CoGF) only applies once.

If you have 3 bracelets and 1 HoP, you get 1 HoP's worth of tokens (plus the normal amount from the other bracelets)

If you have 3 bracelets and 3 HoPs, you can get 3 HoP's worth.

The bonus token you get for being 6th level (if you are 6th+) will apply for each bracelet, tho.

If anyone can use a trio of 5th level players (Ranger, Rogue, and Paladin), and is running Nightmare in the first half of the day Friday, please keep me in mind.

ever-so-slightly edited from page 14 of the 2013 Coach's Guide

Groups with Less Than Ten Players
In most circumstances, when the full complement of 10 players has not arrived before the official start time, we will attempt to fill the group from players on the waiting list. However, there are exceptions.
Some groups prefer to play their adventure with less than 10 people. That's permissible as long as these parameters are followed:

• All 10 hard tickets must be purchased by one or more players in the group. They may not pay for the runs with generic tickets. A hard ticket is a single ticket that specifies the exact date and time of the event the participant paid for.
  
  Note: The aforementioned rule for hard tickets only applies to groups deliberately running with less than 10 people. Players who fill in an incomplete party off of the waiting list may pay with generic tickets.
• All 10 hard tickets must be turned in.
• All 10 wristbands must be put on members of that group. E.g., if a group chooses to run their adventure with eight people, two players would each wear two wristbands or one player would wear three wristbands. The allocation of the extra wristband(s) must be decided by the group.
• 10 bags of tokens will be distributed to the group, as determined by who is wearing the extra wristband(s). E.g., if a group chooses to run their adventure with eight people, two players would each receive two bags of tokens or one player would receive three bags of tokens. Again, this it's up to the group to decide how the extra treasure bags are to be allotted.
• No matter how many wristbands a player is wearing, no person may play more than one character. So yes, someone could buy all 10 slots and solo the dungeon, but that person may only play a single character, not ten.
• Only treasure-enhancing or synergistic tokens may be "equipped" on phantom characters. These tokens will be noted on the party card where appropriate.
  
  Note: Phantom characters cannot duplicate a class currently being played by a real person. E.g., if the party contains a Bard, Cleric, Druid, Elf Wizard, and Wizard, no phantom character can equip a Cabal item because none of the remaining classes are eligible to equip a Cabal item.
• At the end of the adventure, Treasure Chips will be awarded as if a real person had played. Treasure-enhancing tokens only affect one wristband per token. E.g., if a player solos a dungeon and only has one Horn of Plenty, s/he would get triple Treasure Chips for one slot but the normal amount of Treasure Chips for the other nine slots. If a player solos a dungeon but possesses 10 HOPs, s/he would get triple Treasure Chips for all 10 slots. This principle applies to all other treasure-enhancing tokens.Therefore, if a player solos a dungeon and has six Charms of Good Fortune, they would grant a total of +18 Treasure Chips (+3 tokens per "person").
  
  Note: Players will also need to show all their treasure-enhancing tokens to the person at the XP desk after their adventure.
• 6th-level (or higher) players get one extra Treasure Chip for each wristband they're wearing. Unlike treasure-enhancing tokens, level benefits count for all the extra slots that player paid for but were not filled with actual human beings. E.g., if a 6th-level player soloed the dungeon, s/he would receive a total of 10 bonus Treasure Chips for being 6th-level, in addition to whatever other bonuses that person was entitled to.

Thanks Raven & Druegar

You know after reading it again I wonder if there might be a case to be made for separating Treasure generators from Synergy items for the purposes of phantom players.

Synergy items stack so I agree with the way those are handled. ie If you do two separate runs with one synergy token you'll only get synergy effect of once per token in each run. So it makes perfect sense that if you have two tickets with overlapping time you should only get the effect once since that's what would happen if the runs were separate.

But it seems weird that each phantom player needs a separate set of treasure generators since they don't stack. i.e. if I do two runs with one set of treasure generators I buy two tickets and get two sets of treasure. On the other hand if I buy two tickets for the same run and have the same one set of treasure generators it only applies once. Either way the same number of tickets get consumed, only difference seems to be the time spent.

Its a question for Jeff, but it seems like if it were changed for treasure generators it would really just be a time saver for people who both want smaller runs and do several runs to farm treasure chips.

Picc wrote: Thanks Raven & Druegar

You know after reading it again I wonder if there might be a case to be made for separating Treasure generators from Synergy items for the purposes of phantom players.

Synergy items stack so I agree with the way those are handled. ie If you do two separate runs with one synergy token you'll only get synergy effect of once per token in each run. So it makes perfect sense that if you have two tickets with overlapping time you should only get the effect once since that's what would happen if the runs were separate.

But it seems weird that each phantom player needs a separate set of treasure generators since they don't stack. i.e. if I do two runs with one set of treasure generators I buy two tickets and get two sets of treasure. On the other hand if I buy two tickets for the same run and have the same one set of treasure generators it only applies once. Either way the same number of tickets get consumed, only difference seems to be the time spent.

Its a question for Jeff, but it seems like if it were changed for treasure generators it would really just be a time saver for people who both want smaller runs and do several runs to farm treasure chips.

Personally I hope Jeff doesn't make changes like this to help enable people to buy "ghost" slots that are only bought so people can get more treasure coins. Assuming another sellout, it would be much better to have those tickets go to actual players. My preferred change would be that only synergistic tokens be allowed on ghost players. I'd also like it if you had to actually play a dungeon to collect treasure coins, instead of being able to just hand your tickets in at the start and collect your coins. If Jeff creates more treasure coin tokens that could encourage a lot more of that to happen.

Mike Steele wrote: Personally I hope Jeff doesn't make changes like this to help enable people to buy "ghost" slots that are only bought so people can get more treasure coins. Assuming another sellout, it would be much better to have those tickets go to actual players. My preferred change would be that only synergistic tokens be allowed on ghost players. I'd also like it if you had to actually play a dungeon to collect treasure coins, instead of being able to just hand your tickets in at the start and collect your coins. If Jeff creates more treasure coin tokens that could encourage a lot more of that to happen.

Agreed in so much as I hope we don't see any new treasure generators. That said I suspect people will be buying up ghost tickets to get smaller runs either way. Personally Id rather ghosts couldn't wear anything with an in game effect. Treasure generators are a little different though in that if people are buying ghosts anyway letting them ghost equip might actually get them to consume less tickets.

Mike Steele wrote: Personally I hope Jeff doesn't make changes like this to help enable people to buy "ghost" slots that are only bought so people can get more treasure coins. Assuming another sellout, it would be much better to have those tickets go to actual players.

I agree that TD tickets are hard to get, and with sell-outs still happening I'd rather see more players go through, than have runs used for "farming" treasure tokens.

That said, I intend to go through the dungeon at least 6 times this GenCon (2 runs/day has been my minimum for the last few years) and I am actually looking forward to doing a Double-Down run this year, where each person wears 2 bracelets and gets twice the completion tokens and the treasure.

Why? Because I'll enjoy the dungeon twice as much as I would in a crowded 10-man run, and I know it'll be challenging. On top of that, I can go on one less run during the con, while still having the same chance to draw ingredients and collect Completion tokens (I really like collecting completion tokens! For me the treasure chips are just gravy, and I know I gave a lot of them away last year.)

So for me, I'm not taking up another ticket to do this (I'll buy the same number of tickets, but go through the dungeon once less overall)... I'm freeing up 2 hours where I can volunteer for TD or help outfit some new players, or just relax and enjoy the Con.