TOPIC: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014?

Which raises some questions about GenCon. If something as big as TD can have its growth potential hamstrung...

But that's another topic for another time.

Ya.

It's a common refrain that this year is especially hectic due to the 40th anniversary of D&D and the release of D&D 5th edition...but I'm not sure that's as big of a factor as people seem to think.

At this rate, I'm afraid GenCon 2015 will be absolutely insane, to the point of intense frustration and openly unhappy gamers. Either that, or space will be at such a premium that only the big companies will be able to afford a presence and all the neat independent companies, artists, and so on will be squeezed.

I suppose some things could move into adjacent hotels. I suspect lower-cash-flow items like board games and card games (but not Magic or other cash cows) may make such a move.

Okay, not the right place for this tangent. Sorry. I'm done.

There are a number of ways technology could be used to streamline the TD experience and make things easier for the coaches and DMs. But I'm guessing the time and money involved make it prohibitive...

Ok so if we remove the puzzle/combat choice it will be fine if we add:
More rooms that have both puzzle and combat options so groups can choose their flavor. And To counter act the loss of a different room, have some choice option that changes one or more of the rooms around for a different feel so there is some replay value.

If all that can be accomplished I'm cool with the change. This would ensure nothing is really lost. It would also really enhance the play for everyone in a very interactive way.

I know this puts a massive burden on the GM to create such a story but I believe you have it in you.

From my perspective, I would be glad to see no combat/puzzle distinction. I end up struggling to find a slot to shoehorn in whichever I'm 'missing', and end up playing so many times that it becomes a blur. This way I'll only need two slots to see all the rooms, PERFECT! And I won't have to kick myself for missing a room or two. If people want a different experience, try a sealed deck run, or even a PUG.

Final thought - 10 minute rooms? That's just crazy talk...

I agree with Binia


10 minute rooms, no way thank you! 12 minutes is too short now, and there always feels like we loose time trying to get in to the next room while the previous group is still leaving

ending the variations is not a huge deal to me, you can only get XP for one version anyway the completion tokens are still there for the 2 different runs. I do buy tickets for each variation just to see the extra stuff. if there was no variation extra tickets might loosen up.

Room is always at a premium, those 16 missing feet will hurt, problem is gencon is so popular people are always going to want in.

I hope TD can grow, but if it starts to be a bigger event out of gencon, sadly due to distance I won't be able to do too much.

I couldn't be more opposed to dropping down to 10 minutes. Even if an additional room were added to make up 10 of the 14 minutes lost, time is typically the enemy that harms the most parties. Shortening the time in each room will just make that langolier even more oppressive.

I'd be fine with dropping the combat/puzzle distinction. The lines have been blurring a bit of late anyway. I love the idea of having some rooms be either. I know one of my friends feels worthless in the puzzle rooms but absolutely loves the combats. For people like her, it would be great to be able to choose to do a combat rather than a puzzle.

I can certainly appreciate that adding GenCon perk times for Adventurer's Guild is very tough and having a separate event in the Spring seems a reasonable compromise. One of the problems, though, is that increases travel costs and vacation time needs for those that live far away. Plus, if you only spend enough (as I do) for a single AG status, it becomes problematic for any significant others that may want to participate but can't. Can you see going on vacation and only one person be able to enjoy the trip's main purpose?

If we go to a split room (or a puzzle vs combat) I'd love to take on that extra challenge as a DM. Not a huge fan of the 2k AG as I have a hard time coming up with 1K and I still feel that puts me in the "large buyer" category.

Definately not 10 minute room. Too many times people need all 12.

I'm a fairly new player, I love the true dungeon as a whole and don't really have a preference between the two. My best and worst runs of 2013 were because of veteran players. I felt like many of the veteran players kept getting frustrated with less experienced players (such as myself) in the heat of combat or a timed puzzle...players also like to claim classes based off of the tokens they have (I can't say I'm against this because I have gear specifically for druid and don't plan on budging from my class decision). So to accommodate everyone, what if dungeon runs were split based on a true dungeoners xp level, sort of like the adventurers guild exclusive run idea. So that way we have slots specifically for people who want to try out true dungeon and for those hard core collectors who are looking for a challenge for their artifacts, relics, and ultra rares. I'm not sure what the ratio of new and returning players are and scheduling may still be an issue even if this idea was implemented, but I think it might be a good thing to think about trying to accommodate players new and veteran.

Ok first up I'm not thrilled about the idea of 10 minute rooms, I feel like that might actually cause people to buy out slots and run with less people in order not to be as rushed.

I'm cool with eliminating the puzzle combat split, that would likely have the desired effect in terms of making it easier to get a run that fits your schedule. I would causion about to much variation though. Solve the puzzle or fight the monster rooms are fine (as are any in room choices where we can clearly see both options) but larger variations would for me at least still present the problem of not wanting to miss anything. I could see a lot of people getting disappointed if there was a secret track choice within the dungeons that lead to them not having enough runs booked to experence everything. Or getting disappointed if they ran twice and found out their choices weren't really (ie two coradors leading to the same room).

An additional idea I could see opening up some more runs might be to extend the idea of phantom players to phantom.tickets. ie as it is now if a player goes through with two wrist bands they get two sets completion tokens etc but still take up two tickets. If we did something like you can turn in X generic tickets at the xp desk to get an extra set of treasure as if you had done a second run it might cut down on the number of tickets vets need to grind loot.

Another idea might be to have a single super GM take a single party through all the rooms during the bubbles (might be a time for an AG run).

While I'm brainstorming is there any restriction on staying open later. Maybe not a full nightshift (though werewolf runs all night) but maybe an extra hour at the end or a full Sunday run schedule assuming it wouldn't mess with the teardown to much.

Picc wrote: Another idea might be to have a single super GM take a single party through all the rooms during the bubbles (might be a time for an AG run).

While I'm brainstorming is there any restriction on staying open later. Maybe not a full nightshift (though werewolf runs all night) but maybe an extra hour at the end or a full Sunday run schedule assuming it wouldn't mess with the teardown to much.

The problem with the "single super GM" running groups through during the bubbles is that even though the DMs would get the break, NPCs and blue hands would not.

And the challenge for overnight, or even just later-ending, shifts is the volunteers. We have enough trouble recruiting, training, and keeping the volunteers we currently have.

So I think this is a great idea for a few reasons.

1) Lets look at Nightmare ... Puzzle Nightmare after Thursday is almost a gimme except for a few combat encounters that should be easily doable by a Red equipped group. It is almost a slap in the face to people that really have to gear up for Combat Nightmare only to get the same rewards as a bunch of people that just have been told the puzzle solution.

Be honest ... is puzzle Nightmare really the "end game" you want ?

2) In reality you are switching 1 - 2 rooms for each dungeon. It doesn't seem like a lot but the cost to create an extra 4 rooms ... probably better space and economics on other aspects of the game.

Random Idea
Take the extra space and maybe make a 20 person encounter ... 2 groups 2 dm's ... hardcore epic battle. Would be nice to end a story arch with something like this.


I hate saying anything bad against the puzzles .. they are AMAZINGLY designed, but after Thursday they are pretty much ruined because there is always 1 person who either has run the puzzle solution before .. or was told the info by a previous group. The sheer amount of texting solutions about TD between players after a dungeon run to there friends in another group is beyond annoying.

It really comes down to having very dynamic puzzles that are hard to spoil, or just physical challenges like we had trying to get the eggs last year.

Fortunately I and a friend were able to get Thursday am pickup group in 2013 for golembane. Really cool and solving the puzzle, just figuring it out was great fun, but by Thursday night / Friday morning the solutions were well known for the full run. It really ruins a player experience when there is just 1 loudmouth with the solution in the group and gives no time for other people to start working it.

Regards,
Anthony Brown