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In 2013 our plans call for us to add an additional adventure to the event. There will be two consecutive adventure modules, and each module will have two variations of either a combat or puzzle orientation. The first module called “Lycans Afoot” tasks the party to travel through a dark forest in search of a tower, while the second module called “Golembane” challenges the party to reach the top of tower.

TOPIC: POd about no saves/no dodges

POd about no saves/no dodges 5 years 9 months ago #1

So this was the first year where I came out of TD really POd. There were several instances where room DMs ignored some of the items that I had that allowed me to avoid damage and/or death by way of re-dos.

During setup, the people recording my items said, "Oh, hang on to these items, they're going to help you avoid damage and give you opportunities to re-do certain things like puzzles" but when I pulled them out to use them, the DMs didn't even acknowledge them and just said, "You take X amount of damage."

There were also inconsistencies in preparation from Golembane to Lycans Afoot. I was told that one of the charms I had allowed for an extra treasure pull by one DM and the other told me no the next night.

It would be great to have some consistency with things like that, especially when you get your head and heart set on a strategy or think that you have a chance to save vs. certain types of damage.

Highly irritating.

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Re: POd about no saves/no dodges 5 years 9 months ago #2

I would be frustrated too, DantesGame. :(

If you wouldn't mind, and so we can better educate our DMs and coaches in the future, would you mind giving specific examples of the inconsistencies you encountered?
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections/suggestions in this thread .
If I write something in teal, it should not be taken seriously.

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Re: POd about no saves/no dodges 5 years 9 months ago #3

If you could post the tokens that were in question would help too. Especially a charm that allows more treasure pulls...
Co-Guild Leader of Zombies
Yes I'm an Arneson you do the math.

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Re: POd about no saves/no dodges 5 years 9 months ago #4

I've had similar issues pop up. Yes, highly irritating. Even understanding the DMs are extremely distracted and mentally fried, it's hard not to feel miffed at these episodes.

At the very least, if something reduces or lets you avoid damage you can correct it yourself without confusing the DM and slowing things down.

For example, if you had the Ring of Improved Evasion and failed a Reflex roll, you could just take half the damage the DM told you to take without correcting them.

Granted, this won't work for something that is supposed to allow a re-check, such as Antidote for a failed Fortitude save against poison.

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Re: POd about no saves/no dodges 5 years 9 months ago #5

We had similar issues with the Boots of the North, DM kept saying the boots only work out doors. We showed the DM the token he was okay. Two hours later same DM same room he says the Boots of the North only works out door. And to top it off, the next day same DM... again states the Boots of the North only works out doors! At least he was consistent!!
Co-Guild Leader of Zombies
Yes I'm an Arneson you do the math.

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Re: POd about no saves/no dodges 5 years 9 months ago #6

Strange to me was Electrical Damage given "that was unlike any shcok you felt before" where our shock resistance items did not count.

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Re: POd about no saves/no dodges 5 years 9 months ago #7

Donald Rients wrote: Strange to me was Electrical Damage given "that was unlike any shcok you felt before" where our shock resistance items did not count.


That's been consistent in past years.

"Puzzle damage" is usually not prevented by damage reduction and resistance from tokens. Most of the time, the damage type is just flavor any way. If it makes you feel better, think of all puzzle damage as unpreventable eldritch damage....

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Re: POd about no saves/no dodges 5 years 9 months ago #8

I had an unfortunate encounter with a coach over the interaction between ring of the wolf and orb of might. He eventually let me have the +1 to hit, but only after he asked three directors and saw the tokendb entry showing the orb as non-magical

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Re: POd about no saves/no dodges 5 years 9 months ago #9

Seth Murray wrote: I had an unfortunate encounter with a coach over the interaction between ring of the wolf and orb of might. He eventually let me have the +1 to hit, but only after he asked three directors and saw the tokendb entry showing the orb as non-magical


Orb of Might is an offhand weapon, and typically, only the mainhand +hit is recorded on the party card. Mainhand and offhand bonuses should *not* be added together.
Blimey!

Caution: May contain cynicism and snark. Handle with care.

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Re: POd about no saves/no dodges 5 years 9 months ago #10

Many of these problems might come from the very strict instructions DMs get about what tokens to accept. They are given specific lists of what tokens might work in XYZ situation. While the result may be to keep relatively inexperienced DMs informed, it also severely restricts DM flexibility to almost nil. And so, you get many DMs who assume that if they weren't specifically told to expect a token would work, they should assume it does not work.

This makes keeping tokens from year to year almost worthless. It is a more pressing problem than most people are willing to discuss.

The argument goes that the #1 complaint is "inconsistent DM rulings". But that is part and parcel of roleplaying games.

One can argue that True Dungeon is not strictly an RPG, and is more of an interactive haunted house, and as such needs to have much more stringent outlines and consistent procedures.

This is all well and good. But in that case, don't pretend that the RPG elements which tokens suggest are actually possible.

A Medallion of Greyhawk seems like an awesome token from an RPG stance, but within True Dungeon its value is highly questionable. What is the point of having a token that makes you invulnerable to poison if every instance of poison in the game somehow "magically" invalidates the Medallion? What is the point of having a Ring of Shock Resistance if it doesn't actually reduce shock damage in the game? It shouldn't matter if it's "real" shock damage or just flavor for room push damage. The resources were put into the item, so the item should work.

/rant (for now)

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Re: POd about no saves/no dodges 5 years 9 months ago #11

Incognito wrote:

Donald Rients wrote: Strange to me was Electrical Damage given "that was unlike any shcok you felt before" where our shock resistance items did not count.


That's been consistent in past years.

"Puzzle damage" is usually not prevented by damage reduction and resistance from tokens. Most of the time, the damage type is just flavor any way. If it makes you feel better, think of all puzzle damage as unpreventable eldritch damage....


This, I've disagreed with for years. If damage is going to be flavored, then our mitigation sources should be effective. There is nothing more annoying then being immune to poison and being told: 'Oh, that poison over there? It's too poisonous for you.'
Blimey!

Caution: May contain cynicism and snark. Handle with care.

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Re: POd about no saves/no dodges 5 years 9 months ago #12

Agreed, I would happily take inconsistent rulings if DMs were allowed to do things that made sense (consistent inconsistency if you will). If I take the time to make myself immune to something then I would actually like to be immune to it. And I can tell you from coaching this year it would not apply to the vast majority of folks. All of us on these boards are the outliers from the general population so why not let us have our fun with the tokens/GMs. The majority of the population would not be effected.
Semper Gumby, Always flexible.

Sartre sits in in a coffee shop and asks for a coffee without cream. The barista apologizes “Sorry, we don't have any cream. Can I offer you a coffee without milk instead?”

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