TOPIC: First Impression

Recently I got  to try True Dungeon for the very first time. What follows is an assessment f that experience. It is my hope that these comments will help make that experience better for other players, especially first timers.

Staff (Including Volunteers)
============================
1) Professionalism: A+ Very high marks here. I was truly impressed. I had spent most of the day in the dealer's area and it was obvious that many of those folks were feeling the strain of such a busy Con. While the dealer's area was professional, it was just barely so. On the other hand, the folks at True Dungeon were very friendly and made me feel right at home.

2) Knowledge: D- This might not have have obvious to folks who have been through True Dungeon several times, but I asked questions of both the morning crew and the evening crew. It quickly became obvious that neither crew had all the information that they should have had available. For example, the morning crew said that runs were done every two hours starting at 10am. The evening crew said that they started every 15 min. Turns out the evening crew was correct. Suggestion: Every member of True Dungeon should be given a handout that contains detailed information about not only their own responsibilities but an FAQ that contains the answers to common questions that a new player might ask.

3) Volunteer Desk: B For the most part, this group seemed to have the answers, possibly all of them. Unfortunately, they were also either uninformed or misinformed about things that they should have honestly known the answers to. They did get more of the questions right than the staff members I talked to.

4) Actors: B+ I felt that while some did an outstanding job (the genie was very amusing in Golemsbane), others just stood there. Even some of the more experienced players commented on this during the run I went on. The Magma Elemental (or whatever it was supposed to be) just stood there grinning like a cardboard cutout. I also noticed that very little effort went into his appearance. The Genie on the other hand was very well done (although I had never heard of a green genie before the actress more than made up for this with her performance).

5) Sales Area: F This was by far and away the worst part of the True Dungeon experience. I have been gaming for over 30 years and in retail professionally for over 10. There are certain rules you just don't break.

A) If you serve drinks, you MUST serve them in a well lit area. If you don't, someone IS going to spill some or all of their drink and someone else IS going to slip and fall. Sooner or later the odds simply catch up with you. As dark as it was, I doubt that anyone would have seen a Wet Floor sign.

The area in which you sell anything should be lit well enough that people can see the denominations of the bills in their wallets. Ignoring this simply opens you up to fast money changers/con artist... “No, I gave you a twenty not a ten!”

C) Selection. Simply there wasn't any. Boosters, Token pages, Flasks and Rule Books. That was it. In any other game that you play, started packs are a given. Other companies do this without even thinking about it. At a bare minimum a generic starter pack should have been available. Additional starter packs for each class should also have been made available. I heard several players talking about the Token Guide. Why was this not made available for sale? The started mats where you place your tokens, also not available for sale.

D) Lack of preparedness. Very little merchandise was ready for purchase. If my dept. at work was this unprepared my boss would lose his job. Every time I went to buy Token Pages, they had to be counted out. They were sold only in batches of ten, so why weren't these already packed up and made ready for sale? Other items had to be dug out of the boxes.

E) Prices. These were great! I had no issue at all with the prices of the items that you were selling. After having spent most of the day in the dealer area, it was nice to see reasonable prices for a change.

Treatment of New Players
========================
While the staff was friendly, their hands were tied by the rules. Several staff members commented that they were glad to see new players. The rules by which these new players were treated was much less than “friendly”. New players are unlikely to come in with a full group. More likely they will either come in alone or with just one or two friends. New players need MORE time to learn yet the rules said that they couldn't join in until after the run had officially begun for 5 min. Huh? The people who need MORE time actually get LESS time?
Once I got into a run, I had less than 2 min. to actually create my character. I had purchased two boosters and had received the “free” booster that everyone gets for going on a run. NO time to ask questions or practice anything. What made this part even worse was the fact that I told the gal at the Golemsbane entrance that I wanted as much time to get ready as possible. She informed me that there was only one spot open on the current run and that she couldn't guarantee that I could get a spot on the next run. Several players explained to me that this is because almost all of the runs sell out within minutes of them being offered online. You don't reserve a spot, you don't get a spot.
One thing that was very confusing was that the day crew had a Tavern Wench who was selling tickets to runs that had opened up but the night crew had no such person coordinating and running this part of the True Dungeon experience.
The run itself was, of course, very confusing. I didn't fully understand how combat worked until we got to the next to the last combat. All the staff members had said that Golemsbane had six rooms. There were in fact eight. There were two staff members to process people at the end of the run. Since they were outnumbered 4 to 1, the processing was slow. Seems from what I could gather that there was ALWAYS a group in front of you when you completed a run. Took about 20 min. to process our entire group and ideally it would have taken no more than 12 min. I have no doubt that it would have taken much longer than that had the young teenage boy (one of the two staff members who were processing people) not been so fast and efficient with computers.
Overall experience: C-

Suggestions
===========
1) Fix the sales area. If you aren't sure how do this, take a walk around the dealer's area and see how people are selling cards and minis. Still not sure? Hire a professional consultant to advise in how to improve this critical area. If True Dungeon is to thrive and improve, it MUST be profitable. Do that and you can lower the price of a run down to $20 instead of the $44 that I paid (not counting all the stuff I ending buying). A lower price will make True Dungeon a much more tempting experience.

2) Either make spots on each run open spots that cannot be reserved or have at least two runs each day that are open runs and cannot be reserved. This will allow new players to join in the fun. This should be done for EACH adventure that you have not just one.

3) Mentors. Each new player should have a Mentor who is NOT the party leader (that role is busy enough as it is). The Mentor should explain how True Dungeon works and help the new player understand what and how they are supposed to do. Not everyone has been a gamer for 30+ years like me. When I GM at my house, I will usually spend extra time with a new player to help them out or assign a vetern player to help teach them the ropes. True Dungeon Mentors should be rewarded as well. Give them one extra pull at the end of the adventure and a Mentor button. This will encourage people to seek out new players and the more players you have, the better off you are going to be.

4) Support the newbies. Don't just offer the starter packs that I mentioned earlier (although that would be a good start). Allow players to turn in unwanted tokens for Treasure Tokens (the gp kind not the run kind). At least then they would have SOMETHING to barter with. Create grab bags for new players at a bargain basement price. Allow all players to donate unwanted tokens for consumables such as potions and scrolls which you will get back in runs anyway. This would create a win-win situation. Experienced players would get the consumables they wanted, the new player would get items they desperately needed and True Dungeon would make money in the process.

5) PLEASE support the Traders! Had it not been for the two traders I dealt with, my first True Dungeon experience would not have been nearly as much fun. After my first run, I felt frustrated. I knew I needed better gear but I had very little to offer. I bought what I had thought were ingredients in the dealer area only to learn that the items I bought were total junk and not worth anything to the traders. Fortunately they were very interested in my gold piece treasure tokens. I was lucky enough to get a 250 gp Treasure Token in one of my boosters for which one trader gave me a complete set of Darkwood Armor. With their help, I was able to gather a MUCH more impressive set of tokens than when I started. They also made me feel much better and help me to look forward to next year. That said, trading was difficult. It was so dark, you couldn't read the fine print on the tokens to see just how good it really was... the small lights were available ONLY for runs and were not for sale. It would have been a MUCH better idea to set the traders up on at tables out the True Dungeon area where everyone could see what they were doing. Any trader who mans a trading station for four hours or more should get one extra pull and a Trader button.

Conclusion
==========
While this post may seem harsh and critical, please keep in mind that it was made to help True Dungeon improve and live up to its full potential. While my own first True Dungeon experience was frustrating, I believe that with better organization and a little more planning, the True Dungeon experience has the potential to grow to become the centerpiece of Gen Con.

I will correctly address what really happen at True Dungeon Adventures after few days of rest. Yes, some of the the stuff has been address, while other has been full ignore. I'm sorry that you had to see that from TD and will continue this way too because Jeff Martin can be stubborn about it, but he only human after.


-Eversuede-

Recently I got to try True Dungeon for the very first time. What follows is an assessment f that experience. It is my hope that these comments will help make that experience better for other players, especially first timers.

As another first time player, I'm going to give additional views and some counterpoints to much of what you've said.



Staff (Including Volunteers)
============================
1) Professionalism: No arguments here.

2) Knowledge: I think this is a case of misunderstanding the question. One group gave you the approxamate time commitment for a single run, while the other gave you the ammount of time between runs.

3) Volunteer Desk: No opinion here, since I didn't make use of that desk.

4) Actors: Actors are ok. The genie (or genies) during the weekend got really high marks all the way through. The dryads on the lycan side were also decent (although not up to genie level.) There really isn't much interaction with most NPC's. The genie really stould out because it was a combat NPC, not an interactive one, yet she was interactive anyway.

5) Sales Area: I'd extend this to prep areas in general.

A & B- I know that most of the lighting issues are due to the venue, and that it's really a choice of light or no light. I think what's really needed is to have the "village" in another room to allow better light, or add a number of batter operated lanterns (to avoid more electrical hookups at unions rates.) Weathered lanterns are available at the same haunt shows as many of the other props used in the event.

A If you serve drinks, you MUST serve them in a well lit area. If you don't, someone IS going to spill some or all of their drink and someone else IS going to slip and fall. Sooner or later the odds simply catch up with you. As dark as it was, I doubt that anyone would have seen a Wet Floor sign.

C) Selection - I don't think the selection or starter kits are really needed. They would be so seldomly bought, the effort wouldn't really be worth it. The secondary market easily takes care of this with trades, sales, and giveaways. I'll come back to this in the conclusions.

D) Lack of preparedness - I think this is because most players aren't there to buy tokens. 95% of the players or better already have their tokens ahead of the event.

E) Prices. The price per unit isn't a bad hit, but they will add up. Once you get addicted enough to start buying $8000 packages of tokens, it's not so cheap. I know that people do it (which is why they are offered.)

Treatment of New Players
========================
Like with the sales, you are coming at this as the exception, not the rule, when it comes to players joining the game. As others said almost all runs book up online. True dungeon actually expanded the number of runs this year by 50%, so walk up players filling spots is probably something new to deal with. Most first time players still have bought tickets ahead of time, and are scheduled in the run. Here is how things happen when you are prescheduled instead of being a substitue for a no-show on a run (which is why you didn't get the spot until the end, they had to make sure the person didn't show up at the last second.)
1) You get your tokens, meet your team, choose characters, and then get all the tokens assigned.
2) You go practice the skills in the practices room for a bit before your actual run begins. (I think it's 12 minutes, but I could be wrong by a couple minutes.

So it was because you were likely filling in the spot of someone who didn't show up, you didn't get much time. Once again, new players filling in is rare from what I could tell. The $44 price tag, plus everything selling out, makes new walkups rare.

As far as being hand tied by the rules, thruoughput is what makes this event work. As soon as they try changing the system, it gums up the works. (I have a lot of experience with this in the haunted house industry, which this has a lot of similarities to.)

The full rules are online, and almost all players are either returning players, or being introduced to the game by other returning players. So once again, you were coming into the exception case of new + walk on so that you didn't get to get time with the player coach before the game, and you didn't get the practice room. I will tell you that the other players are the best resources, and I learned more from them than from anywhere else.

I will agree that end processing took some time. It varies by group, and there were a few computer issues during the weekend. Some players track experience that needs to go in the computer, and the ammount of treasure varies by player based on how the group did in the dungeon and what equipment the player (and party) have to give treasure bonuses.

Suggestions
===========
1) Fix the sales area. If you aren't sure how do this, take a walk around the dealer's area and see how people are selling cards and minis. Still not sure? Hire a professional consultant to advise in how to improve this critical area. If True Dungeon is to thrive and improve, it MUST be profitable. Do that and you can lower the price of a run down to $20 instead of the $44 that I paid (not counting all the stuff I ending buying). A lower price will make True Dungeon a much more tempting experience.

Even as a new player I will tell you these things -
1) Even expanding to 50% more runs, they still have no issues selling out. Supply and demand says the $44 price is right, so expect it to go up, not down. The price did increase this year from previous years according to the website. They really don't need to tempt people, because they have a maximum number of players they can put through.

2) True dugneon sells a ton of tokens year around. They are selling to the hardcore players in packages of thousands of dollars through a token release party and via the website.

2) Either make spots on each run open spots that cannot be reserved or have at least two runs each day that are open runs and cannot be reserved. This will allow new players to join in the fun. This should be done for EACH adventure that you have not just one.

Opening single spots on runs would be a huge mistake (especially when they can have them presold to guarantee income instead of hoping enough walkins come.) Many (if not most) tickets get sold in big blocks where players already have a group of 10 friends going, or once they have the block of tickets, they fill the run online. This is how I got in. I actually had gotten tickets to two runs myself, but after talking with players through these forums, I dropped my two tickets, and instead joined runs with experienced players where they knew I was a new player from the start. What made it even better is getting involved with a theme run. Theme runs are not organized by True Dungeon. It's done by the players. The themed runs I signed up with were "naked runs". While most expereienced players are decked out in artifacts and powerful magic items, we played using only the single pack of tokens each player got. We took those 10 packs and tried to arm our entrire party as well as we could by putting the gear on who it would benefit the most. I really hope more experienced players will do this in the future, since it's the perfect way to bring in new players.

Right now there are 3 levels of run difficulty. I wonder if a 4th level for "trainer mode" might be a good idea. Offer it in certain slots each day, and try to fill those slots with new players. Experienced players wouldn't be interested in those slots, so it truly should fill with new players. However, I still would predict these would sell out in advance so walkons are unlikely, and many other things done with true dungeon already help to coach new players.

3) Mentors. Each new player should have a Mentor who is NOT the party leader (that role is busy enough as it is). The Mentor should explain how True Dungeon works and help the new player understand what and how they are supposed to do. Not everyone has been a gamer for 30+ years like me. When I GM at my house, I will usually spend extra time with a new player to help them out or assign a vetern player to help teach them the ropes. True Dungeon Mentors should be rewarded as well. Give them one extra pull at the end of the adventure and a Mentor button. This will encourage people to seek out new players and the more players you have, the better off you are going to be.

Even without mentor buttons, I don't think there is any shortage of mentore players. You will find dozens of them on these forums if you spend more time here. I know I had no problem getting advice and coaching both online and at the event from players I had never met before this weekend. Asking random people questions in the area before the dungeons worked great too, as I found helpful players everywhere. Each run also has a player coach who helps you to build characters and practice skills. As I said above, because you were filling in for a no show, you missed out on taking advantage of these items. I got the chance to slide, memorize charts, etc before we set off.

4) Support the newbies. Don't just offer the starter packs that I mentioned earlier (although that would be a good start). Allow players to turn in unwanted tokens for Treasure Tokens (the gp kind not the run kind). At least then they would have SOMETHING to barter with. Create grab bags for new players at a bargain basement price. Allow all players to donate unwanted tokens for consumables such as potions and scrolls which you will get back in runs anyway. This would create a win-win situation. Experienced players would get the consumables they wanted, the new player would get items they desperately needed and True Dungeon would make money in the process.

Starter packs would cost True dungeon far more than it would make, just in the labor to put it together. This kind of stuff is so easy to get in the second market (or even from veterans giving away tokens), it's not worth having something official. When I bought starter gear (which I ended up not using since I went on the naked runs) it included buying lots of healing potions, which I ended up using on the true grind event.

5) PLEASE support the Traders! Had it not been for the two traders I dealt with, my first True Dungeon experience would not have been nearly as much fun. After my first run, I felt frustrated. I knew I needed better gear but I had very little to offer. I bought what I had thought were ingredients in the dealer area only to learn that the items I bought were total junk and not worth anything to the traders. Fortunately they were very interested in my gold piece treasure tokens. I was lucky enough to get a 250 gp Treasure Token in one of my boosters for which one trader gave me a complete set of Darkwood Armor. With their help, I was able to gather a MUCH more impressive set of tokens than when I started. They also made me feel much better and help me to look forward to next year. That said, trading was difficult. It was so dark, you couldn't read the fine print on the tokens to see just how good it really was... the small lights were available ONLY for runs and were not for sale. It would have been a MUCH better idea to set the traders up on at tables out the True Dungeon area where everyone could see what they were doing. Any trader who mans a trading station for four hours or more should get one extra pull and a Trader button.

Gold really is the currency of the game, and it has settled to have a stable cash value. This is huge support for trading. (Gold in turn gets used to transmute powerful items, so collecting gold is valuable for veteran players.) Beyond traders, I thought the plinko game set up by one innovative player was also brilliant.

I almost wish the official booth could sell gold tokens, but that might destroy the market for gold. The reason I do wish gold was more accessable is that it is legal for traders to trade for gold, just not cash, so by selling gold, True dungeon could allow new players to trade, while taking in the money and keeping everything legal.

I absolutely agree that lighting needs to be addressed. I think lanterns is the right way to go at least. There's also some haunted house lighting techniques that could work good to keep light bleed from ruining the dungeon while lighting the village.

Free pulls are not needed. Traders will always be around. If an official "selling gold" solution were implemented, then you'd see even more traders setting up shop, since that would allow new players to trade even before their first run.

Conclusion
==========
While this post may seem harsh and critical, please keep in mind that it was made to help True Dungeon improve and live up to its full potential. While my own first True Dungeon experience was frustrating, I believe that with better organization and a little more planning, the True Dungeon experience has the potential to grow to become the centerpiece of Gen Con.

Hasn't it already been becoming a centerpiece if not the centerpiece? An entire hall is dedicated to one game, and they expanded to a bigger hall this year. Perhaps it will eventually need too halls. Number of players won't be the limitation though. Number of volunteers is what would drive how big it can get.

So, my conclusion. As a first year player, I had a very different experience than what you did, since I knew going into GenCon that true dungeon was one of the things I'd be doing. I do believe there is a lot to improve, and I think a lot of your points stand, but I do think on a few of them, you got the worst case scenario.

I personally think there should be a true dungeon training hall in the village, and that would address most of the issues you brought up. (Heck, if they made "rentable" spaces of some kind accessible, players would figure out how to make many things work.)

The one booth selling tokens was also selling gold. either in bars or in $1 or $2 coin bins, so there is a way.

Lighting the trading area is a good idea, honestly it would be cool to make a themed trading only building, kinda of like they had for transmutable, for seating and have people setup shop there.

It would be awesome of the DMs would dress up too, and the players.

Having a Rules sheet or FAQ in the staging area would be helpful for others. The Combat board seems cramped with most of the players sliding, it makes it hard for those who are new to get time, maybe two practice boards? I consistently showed up 45 min before the runs, but they only start looking to fill runs in the last 5 minutes to make sure no one is running late.

I had 4 Runs, and in 3 of them I was one of the most experienced players ( having only run once before). I was trying to help and coach the new players as much as possible, as well as complimenting players on well done tactics and teamwork. Most of the TD Vets are incredibly nice and willing to help out new players.

I was able to buy a run on the Gencon site up to two weeks before, tickets selling out is not any different than most other GenCon events. Things will sell out unless you plan ahead.

Personally if you are new to TD I would suggest combat vs puzzle, the puzzle rooms are the most stressful as everyone has ideas and people get upset if they are not being listened to. The best Puzzle run was going with members of the DDA and their friends. I have never seen puzzle solving work so well and go so smooth, especially since most of the puzzles were not solved before.

I personally think there should be a true dungeon training hall in the village, and that would address most of the issues you brought up. (Heck, if they made "rentable" spaces of some kind accessible, players would figure out how to make many things work.)

Maybe the True Grind room could be used for that when Eric isn't slaughtering people.

But it comes down to volunteers. Lots of stuff would be possible if more people would offer to jump in and help. Considering all the database issues and last-minute no-shows its a miracle things went as well as they did.

That's a lie. It was hundreds of people busting their humps. So while its great to hear people's impressions and experiences, it's a little frustrating to get lists of suggestions from people who don't understand the obstacles and constraints the volunteers encountered last weekend.

A lot of people jumped in at the last minute to try to help when the ones who were suppose to work that shift didnt show, or took 3-hr lunch breaks mid-shift. If you encountered one of the replacements who gave up a huge chunk of their Con in exchange for a token it's no surprise they weren't up to the level of expertise you would like.

Another new player here with a few thoughts.

*freaking awesome #%#%@*

I had an amazing time on the two runs on Sunday, Golem (combat) and Lycans (Puzzle) very last run of the con. Props to the awesome DMs who really put in the extra effort, we had a few who were really getting into it by telling us where we hit with excitement then attacking us based on damage and quickly narrating the entire fight, it was exciting and really made the adrenaline flow. Some other DMs would simply add up damage and say, not dead yet... making the encounter "meh".

I loved the character actors, they where great, the Dryad who was on the last run of the con was really fun! It seemed the people dressed up where much more into it although there were some exceptions, the monsters on both runs did really good.

Just a couple of suggestions:

It seemed to me that True D could be more efficient if each group starts with one DM as the coach from the starting area who would then lead the group through the dungeon from start to finish. The DM would have a better sense of the team's status; they can actually be an authority over the group. Without the consistency, the next rooms DM appeared to not have a great sense of the party up to this point. I watched a few people on my last run take damage and do nothing to record it without giving it a second thought. If you had a DM with the group, you would not only have consistency, but you would not need a resource stationed in each room, just the monsters. After the DM has completed a run, give them a short break, and rotate them back in again. Perhaps this would require more volunteers, not sure how this would work out, but it seems like it would be helpful.

Second:

I’m certainly hooked playing, but I just can't see (at least in a normal run) any reason of having many more tokens than just a basic set of gear, it's helpful to have a few rare +damage weapons but even with a full team of 1st time players, some of which didn't even have a weapon, we made it through the entire run without much issue. My first run was with some heavy hitters, so I kind of expected it to be smooth. Am I missing something with tokens? Maybe being Sunday things were more lax or perhaps I should try to get in on a harder level next time? Just an observation, and would love to better understand why I should be more excited about better (expensive) gear because I really want to be excited, but looking for justification (excuse) to be .

Oh btw, can someone please explain the puzzle in the last Lycans room? We got it, but I'm pretty sure it was luck.

Thanks, to everyone who set this up, it was comical (glados! haha, genious! still laughing..) and fun, the best gaming event at GENCON (IMO). I may get all dressed up and volunteer next year so I can assist in brightening up someone’s experience like many of the volunteers did for me this time around.

Guedoji wrote: It seemed to me that True D could be more efficient if each group starts with one DM as the coach from the starting area who would then lead the group through the dungeon from start to finish. The DM would have a better sense of the team's status; they can actually be an authority over the group.

They actually used to do this in the early days of True Dungeon. Unfortunately it's not really feasible any more.

First off, it requires way too much manpower, for an event that is already short staffed on volunteers. Secondly, it would mean that each of the DM's would need to memorize details about each room (and the whole dungeon would get spoiled for him or her).

Without the consistency, the next rooms DM appeared to not have a great sense of the party up to this point.

Yes, but this set up risks a lot *less* consistency for a given room.

I watched a few people on my last run take damage and do nothing to record it without giving it a second thought.

For better or for worse, Jeff has decided to go with the "honor system" for a lot of things like this.

If you had a DM with the group, you would not only have consistency, but you would not need a resource stationed in each room, just the monsters.

Consistency for a given run, yes. Consistency as a whole (between different runs), no.

Perhaps this would require more volunteers, not sure how this would work out, but it seems like it would be helpful.

With 12 minutes a room and 2 hour dungeons, a given dungeon would need 10 additional volunteers. With the current 4 dungeons, that would be 40 volunteers.

I’m certainly hooked playing, but I just can't see (at least in a normal run) any reason of having many more tokens than just a basic set of gear, it's helpful to have a few rare +damage weapons but even with a full team of 1st time players, some of which didn't even have a weapon, we made it through the entire run without much issue. My first run was with some heavy hitters, so I kind of expected it to be smooth. Am I missing something with tokens? Maybe being Sunday things were more lax or perhaps I should try to get in on a harder level next time? Just an observation, and would love to better understand why I should be more excited about better (expensive) gear because I really want to be excited, but looking for justification (excuse) to be .

Different people like different things in True Dungeon. Some people like tokens, some people could care less. (Same could be said about the special effects, animatronics, puzzles, combat, etc.).

Brad Mortensen wrote:

I personally think there should be a true dungeon training hall in the village, and that would address most of the issues you brought up. (Heck, if they made "rentable" spaces of some kind accessible, players would figure out how to make many things work.)

Maybe the True Grind room could be used for that when Eric isn't slaughtering people.

Actually, my thoughts on this is maybe it should be another perk of the Adventurer's guild. yes, I know that adventurers guild members least need the slide, practice, but here are my thoughts.

1) If you put sliders in generally available area, you will have more demand than supply. New players may want to practice for hours, and even people not playing on runs would likely come by to slide a while.

2) Adding a couple "dart boards" literally replicating a dart board as a slider board in the adventurer's guild could give people with adventurer guild buttons (meaning experienced players) the ability to bring new players in to practice. This helps regulate usage a little bit more since the AG members would police things a bit more. People not involved at all wouldn't have open access, but veterans have yet another way to help out new players.

3) When not being used for training new players, dart boards could easily be used for challenges between AG members (and invited guests), and perhaps a special tournament or two could even be organized at some point during the weekend by AG members.

I think this would make AG buttons even more useful, and I believe the player base would help here without having to have more official volunteers. (Many AG members are already volunteering at least some of their time anyway.)

NOTE: The other AG perk I'd suggest is adding a "bazaar" with special shop areas only usable with an AG button on one side, and openly accessible on the other. Since I now know that you can buy gold at the token sales booth, I think having a gold only vender area selling starter sets, consumables, and such could get enough interest they would be manned quite a bit, in addition to your everyday traders.

Guedoji wrote:
It seemed to me that True D could be more efficient if each group starts with one DM as the coach from the starting area who would then lead the group through the dungeon from start to finish. The DM would have a better sense of the team's status; they can actually be an authority over the group. Without the consistency, the next rooms DM appeared to not have a great sense of the party up to this point. I watched a few people on my last run take damage and do nothing to record it without giving it a second thought. If you had a DM with the group, you would not only have consistency, but you would not need a resource stationed in each room, just the monsters. After the DM has completed a run, give them a short break, and rotate them back in again. Perhaps this would require more volunteers, not sure how this would work out, but it seems like it would be helpful.

That would be interesting, however, I think there is a tradeoff here. On one hand, the DM would know the party better. However, that DM would now be responsible for knowing the abilities of every monster, trap, and puzzle in the game. As it is set up now, a DM is responsible for knowing just one room of monsters and being an expert on what it can do, and the players are responsible for knowing what they can do.

I think it's actually the same number of volunteers, since it's basically 1 DM per room/party whether the DM is travelling with the party or staying in the room.

1) the newbie area would have to be monitored. The sliders would be for demo, not practicing. Only one, maybe two slides per person allowed. Fake beads and planes boards and leaves, too. The idea is to show new folks how everything works, not to give them a jump on the training room.

2) everyone talks about the starter packs. I made some p this year because I thought they'd be a good idea, too. Between eBay, the forums and setting up for a few hours in he trade areas at the con, I think I sold three. The demand for them just doesnt seem to be as high as I'd have thought. But that may be partly due to new folks not really understanding what good tokens do them.
3) On the one hand I don't think TD should buy or sell GP, or accept it as currency. That's where the Merchants Guild comes in. Messing in that area will cut into the big token orders. On the other, some sort of money changer could be useful. Since we can't accept cash, it would be nice to point people to a teller to sell them GP, then we could change them back into cash. But that would REALLY tick off Gamingetc and other vendors. If TD gets into buying or selling individual tokens there will be trouble.

Brad Mortensen wrote: 1) the newbie area would have to be monitored. The sliders would be for demo, not practicing. Only one, maybe two slides per person allowed. Fake beads and planes boards and leaves, too. The idea is to show new folks how everything works, not to give them a jump on the training room.

Absolutely. This is why I think making it an extension of the AG would be a way to police it. Hopefully that would keep a level of courtesy to it. I thought about beads and boards too. However, once you get that outside the training rooms, I worry you then have things like pics leaving the building and such. All electronics are off (at least in theory) by the time you hit the actual training room.

2) everyone talks about the starter packs. I made some p this year because I thought they'd be a good idea, too. Between eBay, the forums and setting up for a few hours in he trade areas at the con, I think I sold three. The demand for them just doesnt seem to be as high as I'd have thought. But that may be partly due to new folks not really understanding what good tokens do them.

You are exactly who I have been thinking about when we discuss starter packs. I thought it was a great idea, and your website and getting advice from people on these boards really helped me decide what my budget was going to be, and what tokens I wanted to arm myself with before heading to my first true dungeon event. (Ironically, I did two naked runs, so my prebought tokens only got used when I ran true grind.)

I think the demand will be there, it's a matter of the right market and the right marketing. Most new players will not be buying tokens on ebay or websites before the con. A few will, but they likely won't, and these are obviously the target market. Veteran players who actually know about the packs ahead of time won't need them. So being able to get word out about starter packs to new players at the event is really where the effect would be. (Obviously this would limit to using gold, not cash, but that is taken care of by the token shop selling gold.) This is where I think a semi-sponsered bazaar could help. It lets new players know a specific place to go to about tokens in addition to the official shop. As a new player, the dark tables with the boatloads of tokens on them are a bit intimidating. It already looks like the traders at the tables are out of my league. However, if it's set up more like "shops" then it is just part of the game and the experience, and I think it would draw new players in a lot more.

I think in your particular case, the construction of the newbie kits may have been part of the hurdle to get over. I completely understand why you built them the way you did, but I think there is ways to construct them that requires less information required by the buyer. General packs of useful tokens probably mean less to a player than a "warrior pack", a "cleric pack", a "wizard pack", etc. With that said, I was one of those who did buy from you, going with a healing pack, and some individual tokens. I looked at the starter pack tokens, then decided what I wanted to upgrade from there with rare items, and I decided on my budget, getting the rare items was the better purchase for me. I did start the whole exercise by planning out based on your starter pack though, so even though I didn't end up buying it, that was my road to bigger gear purchases.

3) On the one hand I don't think TD should buy or sell GP, or accept it as currency. That's where the Merchants Guild comes in. Messing in that area will cut into the big token orders. On the other, some sort of money changer could be useful. Since we can't accept cash, it would be nice to point people to a teller to sell them GP, then we could change them back into cash. But that would REALLY tick off Gamingetc and other vendors. If TD gets into buying or selling individual tokens there will be trouble.

This is a very hard area. I thought it sounded like someone said they actually were selling GP. I didn't see that at the event, and wondered if it was a possibility. I would definately be against TD selling most individual tokens. Some kind of moneychanger idea is exactly what I was going for (even if it was only a one way thing selling gold but not buying it.) The problem still comes down to who is "licensed" to take in cash in return for the gold. In the TD area, only TD could take in money. The 2 issues to solve:
1) Only licensed vendors can take cash.
2) New players need a source of gold to allow them to trade (preferably BEFORE their first run.)

I'm sure there are solutions to be reached. I'm just not sure what the best solution would be within the rules.

Maybe keeping the newb training limited to 12 mins, just like the rooms, would help. It would give them a feel for the timing and keep a steady turnover. Maybe if they charged one generic as well. I think using the combat table might be enough, but you could add some kind of game using different symbols for each class as well. You could give points for a good slide and passing one of the spellcaster tests and it would let you pull from a box with uncommons and a small amount of rares or GP. Ideally, nothing crazy good, or regulars might block newer players from getting a taste.