TOPIC: Ranger build discussions

Toran wrote:

Xavon wrote:

darkangel866 wrote:

Xavon wrote: Charm of Awareness is preferable to Wicked Charm, IMO. Going first is a big advantage, especially when you can pile on the damage.

If you have that many purps, you should probably have the resources to upgrade your belt and cloak, at least to relic.

Belt is Relic level. Well, it will be, when I do my next trade in. I forgot to include it in the package I sent out this week. The Cloak will be. I was just short Mystic Silks, which will be coming when they ship me my packaging next week.

Charm of Awareness is great, but I'm not going to waste a charm slot simply for a +1 to initiative. That's what it currently boils down to with the Earcuff available, and nothing that compares to it in the slot.

Never underestimate initiative. Also, I'd rather get my immunity to surprise from the Charm and use my second Earcuff for Abjuration.

If you are going full Glass Cannon, I would drop the Orb and Sceptre, and use a d8 +2 main hand weapon, and either a +2 off hand weapon or Mitral Longsword offhand. You lose +1 to hit (plus the fifth level bonuses, which don't do anything for a glass cannon melee ranger, unless you are fighting Undead), but you have better damage potential (same min and high max with +2 off hand weapon, and lower min by one and much higher max with Mithral Sword). And if you are critting that often with flank, the loss of 1 to hit is irrelevant.

Xavon, do you know something that makes "immune to falling rocks" not totally terrible compared to "immune to surprise?"

If he upgrades to Charm Necklace, it's a totally different story, but I just don't see how Earcuff of Abjuration can be anyone's choice over this year's earcuffs. It's one of the things about last year's TrueCraft that makes me saddish. Also the fact that no one wants these leftover Divine tokens...

If he uses Charm of Awareness, like I am suggesting, that will cover immunity to surprise. There is no need to duplicate that power, freeing up one of the Earcuffs. And Charm of Awareness helps the party hit first, which basically means an extra round of damage.

EN 429 wrote: Ditching the Orb and Scepter drops his level, not preferable.

Why not? 5th level grants +9 HP (he already said HP is not a concern), +1 DEX (Same a Rod Part 6, which doesn't do anything for the even stat at level 5), +1 damage against undead, +2 range damage (not a range build), and spells (both defensive).

So swapping out the level boost items for higher damage weapons increases damage potential, for a minor loss in to hit, losing a slight damage bonus against a specific monster type (which is more than made up for), and a bunch of things that don't matter.

EN 429 wrote: Boots of might would also allow the scepter to go so a better melee could be used. That is a decent move cF.

Not if you lose the three damage from Boots of North Wind.

Here would be my Glass Cannon ranger with the tokens I have:
+2 Long Sword
+2 Scepter of Might
+2 Long Bow of the Sun
Archer's Buckler
Crown of Might
Sniper Spectacles
Necklace of the Oak
Greater Cloak of Destiny
Shirt of Shielding
Dragonhide Armor
Bracers of Fire
Mithral Gauntlets
Ring of Frost
Supreme Ring of Elemental Command
Girdle of Frost Giant Strength
Boots of the North Wind
Ioun Stone Beryl Prism
Ioun Stone Faceted Amber
Ioun Stone Iridescent Spindle
Ioun Stone Lavender Ellipsoid
Ioun Stone Topaz Trilliant
Druegar's Death Die
Figurine of Power: Owl
Pouch of Tulz
Horn of Blasting
Quiver of Anointment
Rod of Seven Parts (Segment 3)
Rod of Seven Parts (Segment 4)
Rod of Seven Parts (Segment 5)
Rod of Seven Parts (Segment 6)
Runestone Fitting Base
Autumn Runestone
Sun Runstone
Draco-Lich Claw Charm
Charm of Awareness
Questor's Charm of Luck
Earcuff of Abjuration
Earcuff of Intellect

Build 5758 (though the character builder is not quite accurate, it won't let me add my second Runestone, and credits both weapons for my To Hit Bonus)

Melee:
Hit: +10
Damage: +19
AC: 20

Missile:
Hit: +8
Damage: +4
AC: 21

Fort: 14
Ref: 16
Will: 12
HP: 24

If I had a Mighty Bow, I would use it.

Of course, I'd rather play my Glass Cannon monk. He does two more damage, and that's w/o Necklace of the Oak...

EN 429 wrote: you are at +16 for damage . Assuming 2 hits (which I witness 75% of the time) and moderate damage you are doing 40-50 damage per round.

I was doing math along these lines for my Ranger build, during the Smoak era. With the DragonHide Belt, we got some really impressive numbers going.

And then my Significant Other (who does not play TD) pipes in with "Waitasec... are you calculating DPS, for True Dungeon?"

"No," I reply, "Rounds aren't measured in seconds, so you can't calculate Damage Per Second"

"You are, you totally are calculating DPS! It's just Damage Per Slide!"

So yeah... Yay for Rangers and kicking it up with some fine DPS!

I will throw out a few strategy points I use for equipping a melee ranger:


if you play nightmare and aren't dedicated to AC, AC is useless. I know it isn't technically useless, but it sure feels that way. The monsters are beefed up enough to be a challenge for those who do armor up heavily, so if you try to balance your equipment, you just get hit all the time. "monster attacks ranger, rolls a 5...and hits?" this line of thought is why you see most posts here using the bracers of fire instead of the mithral bracers.

if you are an excellent slider, great for you. those of us who are good but have off days need to value +to-hit more than +damage. when trading these values 1 for 1, if you are close-but-not-perfect, the times you would miss by 1 are going to make a much bigger difference than the few extra damage from the hits do have. this is why I value the orb of might as THE BEST ranger off-hand weapon, period. there is no other off-hand weapon that increases your +to-hit, AND it is just as good as most alternatives even without that because it gives you +1 damage on BOTH weapons. compare to using the +2 scepter of might: scepter is a base d6 weapon with +2 damage, and since you should already have a +2 main-hand weapon, that is it (ie. you already have +2to-hit, the scepter doesn't add anything). the orb will only be a d6 weapon with +1 damage for itself, but also gives +1 damage to your main-hand weapon; total of +2 damage, just like the scepter...AND gives you +1to-hit for a total of +3to-hit from weapon bonuses.

Maybe we need to capture a few Gnomes this year and have them make us a +2 Flamethrower..... 2 handed weapon with one 'boom' on its dial that does 6 to the wearer and 1 to each other member of the party

kurtreznor wrote: I will throw out a few strategy points I use for equipping a melee ranger:


if you play nightmare and aren't dedicated to AC, AC is useless. I know it isn't technically useless, but it sure feels that way. The monsters are beefed up enough to be a challenge for those who do armor up heavily, so if you try to balance your equipment, you just get hit all the time. "monster attacks ranger, rolls a 5...and hits?" this line of thought is why you see most posts here using the bracers of fire instead of the mithral bracers.

Agreed. Rangers are really hampered by the lack of a shield if they want to "tank."

if you are an excellent slider, great for you. those of us who are good but have off days need to value +to-hit more than +damage. when trading these values 1 for 1, if you are close-but-not-perfect, the times you would miss by 1 are going to make a much bigger difference than the few extra damage from the hits do have. this is why I value the orb of might as THE BEST ranger off-hand weapon, period. there is no other off-hand weapon that increases your +to-hit, AND it is just as good as most alternatives even without that because it gives you +1 damage on BOTH weapons. compare to using the +2 scepter of might: scepter is a base d6 weapon with +2 damage, and since you should already have a +2 main-hand weapon, that is it (ie. you already have +2to-hit, the scepter doesn't add anything). the orb will only be a d6 weapon with +1 damage for itself, but also gives +1 damage to your main-hand weapon; total of +2 damage, just like the scepter...AND gives you +1to-hit for a total of +3to-hit from weapon bonuses.

I don't imply that To Hit is useless at all. In fact, that is why I specifically mentioned the Rogue as an important teammate to the Ranger. The "Flank" ability pretty much guarantees 2-3 crits for the party.

When I play Ranger, I slide last in the combat order. This is important for a couple reasons:

1. The Ranger, with 2 weapons has a better chance of bumping a teammate into better spots on the board.
2. Generally speaking, the high numbers are close to the edge of the board. If there are other sliders to stop mine from hitting the backboard, then its easier to hit.

I also find the Orb of Might indispensable to the Ranger. Like Kurtreznor said, it gives a 'to-hit' bonus to both weapons. To-hit isn't quite as important to me as damage, but it is significant enough for me to question +1/+1 vs +2 damage if both exist in the same slot. I would say if both were available in every slot, I would go with a 25/75 ratio. 25% of the items would be +1/+1 and 75% would be +2 damage.

When in a combat here's how I expect my slides to break down:
I know these totals don't add up to 100%, but I expect multiple outcomes from one slide

60% hit rate with at least 1 weapon
20% of the time I expect to crit with at least one weapon
20% of the time I expect to outright miss.
35% of the time I expect to bump a teammate into a hit. When this happens, I have been known to bump 3 or even 4 other sliders up the tree. The majority of the time, I am targeting a specific slider to bump up though. Generally the Rogue (on his backstab), the Barbarian (Stormie hits hard too), or the Wizard (if a creature is weak against an element with a slide spell.)

Xavon wrote:

Toran wrote:

Xavon wrote:

darkangel866 wrote:

Xavon wrote: Charm of Awareness is preferable to Wicked Charm, IMO. Going first is a big advantage, especially when you can pile on the damage.

If you have that many purps, you should probably have the resources to upgrade your belt and cloak, at least to relic.

Belt is Relic level. Well, it will be, when I do my next trade in. I forgot to include it in the package I sent out this week. The Cloak will be. I was just short Mystic Silks, which will be coming when they ship me my packaging next week.

Charm of Awareness is great, but I'm not going to waste a charm slot simply for a +1 to initiative. That's what it currently boils down to with the Earcuff available, and nothing that compares to it in the slot.

Never underestimate initiative. Also, I'd rather get my immunity to surprise from the Charm and use my second Earcuff for Abjuration.

If you are going full Glass Cannon, I would drop the Orb and Sceptre, and use a d8 +2 main hand weapon, and either a +2 off hand weapon or Mitral Longsword offhand. You lose +1 to hit (plus the fifth level bonuses, which don't do anything for a glass cannon melee ranger, unless you are fighting Undead), but you have better damage potential (same min and high max with +2 off hand weapon, and lower min by one and much higher max with Mithral Sword). And if you are critting that often with flank, the loss of 1 to hit is irrelevant.

Xavon, do you know something that makes "immune to falling rocks" not totally terrible compared to "immune to surprise?"

If he upgrades to Charm Necklace, it's a totally different story, but I just don't see how Earcuff of Abjuration can be anyone's choice over this year's earcuffs. It's one of the things about last year's TrueCraft that makes me saddish. Also the fact that no one wants these leftover Divine tokens...

If he uses Charm of Awareness, like I am suggesting, that will cover immunity to surprise. There is no need to duplicate that power, freeing up one of the Earcuffs. And Charm of Awareness helps the party hit first, which basically means an extra round of damage.

Fair enough! I'm still disappointed in "immune to falling rocks" though.

His reflex should be high enough to avoid the majority of rocks.