TOPIC: Please change Keen Edge scroll

When looking over the items and their value, I think the Keen edge scroll basically has little or no value. I will be selling mine just as fast as I can to the NPC vendor.

Keen Edge only lasts for one room, so it will never be cast unless melee has started. Secondly, the person casting it will gives up their attack (or chance to cast a damage spell), in the first round. The scrolls effect is to turn a natural 19 into a natural 20. Since most combat lasted 8 rounds or less it is very likely that the person will not get a 19 in the entire combat and the spell will have had no effect. So this spell could actually reduce the amount of damage the party does, by taking away the mages first attack and giving nothing in return.

I think if Keen Edge is to be worth of being a Very Rare item, it should last the entire dungeon. (which I assume is going to be 3 or 4 combat). It would be cast in the first room before combat and not waste the mages first combat action. As an addional arguement in favor of this, Mage Armor (another rare scroll) lasts the entire dungeon.

If you are not willing to expand it to one person for the entire dungeon, would you consider making it like Bless (a rare scoll) and have it effect the entire party.

(ok, lets the disagreement begin).

George

George,

I think your logic is sound. It makes sense to make this be a Full Dungeon Token or I agree with you; the value should be lower, perhaps to 50gp.

My thinking was that it would be a "final room" scroll and you would cast it before going in (no loss of attack). The benefit depends on the accuracy of the fighter. But it could yield significant damage, perhaps as much as 20 points or more? But this isnt guaranteed so the value should reflect that.

-Douglas

Just remember that our system does not translate exactly to the standard d20 percentages. Sliding a "19" or a "20" is much more likely than rolling a 19-20 with a d20. Of course, that is all up to the skill of your fighter...which makes TD unique and cool. If I was a fighter type with a big sword or axe, I would love to have a critical range of 19 or 20. I have practiced a little, and I think I could hit 19-20 maybe 30% of the time.

So...in the hands of a good fighter-type, a Keen weapon is pretty dang nasty -- especially if they have a Great Weapon and a good Strength.

Ok, now I really, really, really want to make a practice table.

George

Having played a fighter, I agree that even a space of 1 would be very helpful especially when combined with a fighter's power attack.
David

I don't think that it's such a bad token to have. For the climactic battle, like last year, without some crits or unlucky monsters, your party was likely doomed to loose some characters.

Actually I just got to thinking. Perhaps I am just assuming the fighter's power attack combines with Keen edge. I can't remember what the description was for the power attack. Was it when it hits on the 20 or when it hits a critical?
David

Text in the Token FAQ reads:

"This scroll will give one melee weapon of the caster's choice the ability to critically hit on a slider attack of 19 or 20 (instead of just 20). ... All critical hits deliver double the total normal damage".

The rules lawyer in me says this means the doubling happens before the adds for strength and bards song and etc. But Jeff has implied that it happens after the adds. I am confused.

George

The fighter’s power attack currently adds +5 to damage, but only if a 19 or 20 is achieved. If a 20 is “rolled� it adds an additional +10 to the double damage achieved for a critical hit. It appears that with Keen Edge that the power attack would allow +10 to both a 19 and 20 plus the double damage, unless I am interpreting it wrong.

Dave

Well, without ever having seen a TD Shuffleboard, and having no idea if sliding a 19 or 20 will be something I can do on a regular basis... my Keen Edge scroll will be sold/traded. *shrug*

The fighter’s power attack currently adds +5 to damage, but only if a 19 or 20 is achieved. If a 20 is “rolled� it adds an additional +10 to the double damage achieved for a critical hit. It appears that with Keen Edge that the power attack would allow +10 to both a 19 and 20 plus the double damage, unless I am interpreting it wrong.

Dave

Is this a TD modification to d20 rules or a standard d20 rule? (I have the 3.5 edition rules but have never played using them, so I am sorry if I have asked a stupid question)

Well, without ever having seen a TD Shuffleboard, and having no idea if sliding a 19 or 20 will be something I can do on a regular basis... my Keen Edge scroll will be sold/traded. *shrug*

It looks someething like this: