TOPIC: Do I read this right?

I was reading over the newest Token Guide and found something under the FAQ that rather surprised me.<br /><br />Bards and Wizards are also not allowed to wear items that may interfere with the hand gestures involved in spell casting, or in the Bard's case specifically, use of the hands while playing an instrument (i.e. no Bracers or Guantlets).<br /><br />So I am reading this correctly, Bards and Wizards cannot use the following list of items and still cast spells or play the instrument:<br />Gloves of Dexterity<br />Bracers of Deflection<br />Bracers of Achery<br />Bracers of Defense +1 (or +2)<br />Gauntlet of Ogre Power<br /><br />I am sorry but I find this a bit harsh, especially the Bracers portion.  It has been a long standing PnP (which I understand TD is not) item for mages, how could such items interfere with casting, let alone instrument playing. <br />Then there is the Gloves of Dexterity, reading their description, they sound like they are supple enough to be used and not interfere with casting or music playing.<br />I am sorry to say I find this ruling a bit extreme, especially since it heavily penalizes the mages (who have low AC) and bards (who most often are singing rather than swinging).<br /><br />I do hope that my understanding of this is incorrect.<br />Sincerely,<br />Greyseer<br />

That item in the FAQ will need to be updated.  (It has been in there for three years though) It was written when only the Gauntlets of Ogre Power, adn a few bracers that we thought of as armored (e.g., spikes) existed.  It would be hard to play a lute with bracers studded with spikes or with plate armor like gauntlets.  So for that case, a Bard could not use them and certainly not a wizard.<br /><br />I will discuss with Jeff, but until further notice, Bracers and Gloves of Dexterity can be used by both Wizards and Bards.  <br /><br />The Gauntlets of Ogre power can not however.  The Gauntlets of Ogre power also can not be used by Druids (metal), Monks (interfers with hand combat), and Rogues (too small and interfers with dexterity). <br /><br />The table in the section "Bracers, Bracelets, Girdles, Belts, and Gloves:" should be the place to refer to, however I realized that I had copied a row from above and not edited it properly when I added in the Gauntlets, so it is currently wrong in that table, the rest of the items are currently correct.<br /><br />We will fix in the next version.

I wonder where this would leave bracers of the zephyr, which I believe was designed for spellcasters?

<br />That item in the FAQ will need to be updated.  (It has been in there for three years though) It was written when only the Gauntlets of Ogre Power, adn a few bracers that we thought of as armored (e.g., spikes) existed.  It would be hard to play a lute with bracers studded with spikes or with plate armor like gauntlets.  So for that case, a Bard could not use them and certainly not a wizard.<br /><br />I will discuss with Jeff, but until further notice, Bracers and Gloves of Dexterity can be used by both Wizards and Bards.  <br /><br />The Gauntlets of Ogre power can not however.  The Gauntlets of Ogre power also can not be used by Druids (metal), Monks (interfers with hand combat), and Rogues (too small and interfers with dexterity). <br /><br />The table in the section "Bracers, Bracelets, Girdles, Belts, and Gloves:" should be the place to refer to, however I realized that I had copied a row from above and not edited it properly when I added in the Gauntlets, so it is currently wrong in that table, the rest of the items are currently correct.<br /><br />We will fix in the next version.<br />

<br /><br />I remember the Gauntlets of Ogre Power discussion from last year, and if I recall correctly, the final decision was that they probably should not have been applicable to all classes, but since the Chip token did not have any class restrictions on it (which always means that all classes can use it), that the token guide wasn't going to be written so that it conflicted with the token, and that the Guantlets would be usable by all classes.  I remember a suggestion I had was to discontinue the Gauntlets of Ogre Power and the next year introduce a similar item that did have the correct class restrictions - although at this point I'd just recommend discontinuing it completely because the market is flooded with them.<br /><br />So - is TD going to stick with the ruling from last year (and the wording on the token) and have the Gauntlets of Ogre Power applicable to all classes, or is TD going to put restrictions in the Token Guide on the classes that can use it?<br /><br />The downside to having restrictions in the Token Guide that aren't shown on the token, is that the vast majority of people do not read the token guide, and might be confused and unhappy if they are told that the token is only usable by certain classes even though it does not say that on the token itself. 

<br />I wonder where this would leave bracers of the zephyr, which I believe was designed for spellcasters?<br />

<br />The FAQ actually includes this as an exception.  I just was too lazy to type it all in (as the the PDF does not allow cut and paste).

It is also correctly listed in the main part of the guide, as are all the other items, except for the Gauntlets.

But, the difference there is that the Bracelets of the Zephyr token actually calls out Bard, Cleric, Wizard, and Druid as the classes that can use it on the token.  The Gauntlets do not.  I'm sure the reason the token guide does not call out class restrictions on the Gauntlets is because the decision was made last year to not put any class restrictions on it since they weren't put on the actual token. 

The restrictions on the Gauntlets make perfect sense.  Aren't they a purp?  I would imagine most people who would have such a token would be aware of the guide and the forum.<br />

Gauntlets are Red, not purple.

Gauntlets of Ogre Power are a Rare (red) and not a Purp and on them there is no restriction to class.  The purples that are gloves or bracers are the Gloves of Dexterity and the Bracers +2.  <br /><br />It was my understanding that most magic items are not sized (that the cloak of resistance was not only human sized vs halfling sized) and as such the Gauntlets should be usable by the Halfling Rogue. <br />If the argument is being made that the gauntlets wont work on Monks, then why does boxers wear gloves and do punishing amounts of damage.   I would think wearing metal gauntlets would make the fist hurt more, not less.<br />If the argument is being made that the gauntlets wont work for Druids, because the newest images make them look like metal, why can't the same argument be made that was made for the small shield that there is a metal version and a leather version.<br /><br />As for Gauntlets on a Bard, here is my issue with banning them from use - Widseths Lute does not require hands to use.  So if a bard can have one of these marvelous items he should be able to wear the Gauntlets to beat things up, while swinging his sword and wielding his shield, and singing a song.  <br /><br />To be honest I think by restricting the gauntlet is adding a layer of complexity and book keeping that really goes against the KISS principle that TD tends to embrace.<br /><br />While this is a token guide to help us understand the subtleties of the tokens, it would confuse the bejesus out of a new player without something being printed on the token. And knowing that the Gauntlets of Ogre Power have been around since the beginning (at least according to the collectors section of the Token Guide), making such a large and retro change is counter-intuitive to the trend.  I don't see that Gauntlets of Ogre Power are broken in the hands of any class, some benefit more than others, but since they do not count as armor per-se, then there should be no restrictions on them.  If they suddenly added +1 to AC, then I could see the need to restrict what classes could use them.<br /><br />Anyway, I do hope that all gloves, bracers, and even Gauntlets can be used by all noted classes.<br /><br />Sincerely,<br />Greyseer<br /><br />

Also, just to provide a bit more on why I think Druids should be able to wear Gauntlets of Ogre Strength.<br /><br />While the picture that was chosen for 2007 and 2008 tokens is a set of metal gauntlets the d20 SRD describes the Gauntlets as such:<br /><br />These gauntlets are made of tough leather with iron studs running across the back of the hands and fingers. They grant the wearer great strength, adding a +2 enhancement bonus to his Strength score. Both gauntlets must be worn for the magic to be effective. <br /><br /> http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#gauntletsofOgrePower <br /><br />Note they are mostly leather and little in the way of metal, in fact less metal than lets say the druids scimitar or scythe.  So I really think druids should also be able to use the gauntlets, and the art is a bit off from what the item really should be.<br /><br />Still, as has been said many times over TD is NOT d20, but a close proximity.<br /><br />But I am still championing that the whole section about restricting gloves, gauntlets and bracers should be thrown out, unless the token specifically restricts it to a class.

<br />then why does boxers wear gloves and do punishing amounts of damage.<br />

<br /><br />Ummm, boxers wear boxing gloves in order to do less damage, both to themselves and to the opponent. Wearing the gloves increases the surface area and distributes the force. Thus, as far as boxers go, bare knuckle does far more damage. It's also why people strike with the knuckle and not simply the flat of the fist.