TOPIC: Ranged, arrows, and How they are best used?

Ok, totally a new player question.<br />In our run this year no one used their ranged weapons. <br />So I am trying to convince the players to not use their uber melee attacks the first round unless we loose initiative.  The problem is I am not clearly explaining how arrows work great with their weapons, because I myself am not clear.<br /><br />Ok so the team gets the initiative.<br />They shoot arrows (+1 Long Bow d5.5 vs. +1 Long Sword d5.5).<br />Now playing the numbers game at base damage both the bow and sword do the same damage.<br />But then we look at who can use Bows and swords, its the same population (ranger, bard, barbarian, fighter, paladin).<br />Well the bard is singing so we drop him from the equation.<br />Ranger can either shoot once or slide twice <br />Longbow: d5.5 +1 MWA with a +3 to hit vs. <br />Longsword d5.5  +1 STR +1 Gauntlets of Ogre  & +3 to Hit AND Shortsword d4.5 +1 STR + 1 Gauntlets of Ogre & +3 to Hit<br />Which is d6.5 +3 to hit vs. d13 at +3 to Hit<br />Clearly melee is the way to go for the Ranger, if he's accurate on the double slide.<br /><br />OK lets try again with the Barbarian <br />Longbow: d5.5 +1 MWA with a +2 to hit vs. <br />Longsword d5.5  +2 STR +1 Gauntlets +4 to Hit <br />Which d6.5 +2 to Hit vs. d8.5 +4 to hit, again it appears melee wins out.<br /><br />I could continue with numbers but I fear the general concept is the melee is best way to go for those that can shoot.<br /><br /><br />First question, at what point do you declare you are using a special arrow, before you slide or after you hit?<br />Second question, do Sleep arrows do damage + the save or is it just strictly save?<br />Lastly, am I missing anything, should there be some arguement to always shoot if you get the initiative or are the bows and arrows there for the "just in case" moments like if you did get stuck in the shambler trap, or the year you had to shoot across a chasm?<br />

Another thing to add, in the past there have been bracers of archery, which if you can get your hands on will help but I don't know their bonus off the top of my head. Plus you can use a masterwork arrow which is another +1. And I believe you have to declare use of the arrow(sleep, masterwork or other) before sliding, and cannot use more than one arrow at a time. So you cannot notch and fire a masterwork arrow and a sleep arrow. It's one specialty arrow at a time.

Wow.  Okay.  I haven't read all the stats and stuff you posted.<br /><br />I think DD probably covered quite a bit.<br /><br />Just in case, here's my take on raged weapons: <br /><br />1) PIR.<br />Ranged weapons (including missile and thrown, but not spells and one other item I think) are the only items that can be used in the "Pre-Initiative Round."  As far as I know, none of the PIRs opportunities existed in the 2007 module.  However, if there is a PIR in a future module, you'll want to use it to kick some tush.<br /><br />2)  Gloves of Dexterity help with +1 AC, +1 to-hit with missile weapons.<br /><br />3)  Bracers of Archery (which I am now in high supply of btw) are +2 to Missile Damage.<br /><br />4)  If using Thrown items, the effects of the STR + to-damage stack with the DEX + To-Hit.  (verified)<br /><br />5)  Masterwork Arrows.  Consumable.  Adds +1 point of damage if hits.  As a DM, I assumed the arrow was lost if it was a miss.  Declared before sliding.<br /><br />6)  Sleep.  Damage on the bow token.  If hits and monster saves, no additional damage and no sleep.<br /><br /><br /><br />Other thoughts:  <br />

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<br />Bows are 2-handed.  Means no shield.<br />Most (all?) Thrown items are 1-handed and, presumably, may be used with a shield, assuming class allows for it.<br />Unless the module specified it for a particular room, there is no "out of bounds" within True Dungeon.  In other words, using a bow doesn't mean you're 30 feet back - you're still within melee range of the monsters.<br /><br />Overall, most players prefer a melee weapon to a ranged weapon.<br /><br />I like a +2 Flaming Shortbow with above add-ons for the Rogue.<br /><br />A lot of it comes down to what equipment you own.  If you owned five +2 bows and all the ranged goodies and nothing but a standard longsword as far as melee weapons go, then I'd be using the bows.  <br /><br />If you've got everything at your disposal, I still prefer the bow for the rogue (after an initial strike with Nightshade's), and probably melee for all other classes.  <br /><br /><br />

<br />First question, at what point do you declare you are using a special arrow, before you slide or after you hit?<br />

<br />Before, you turn in that token to the DM.<br /><br />

<br />Second question, do Sleep arrows do damage + the save or is it just strictly save?<br />

<br />Sleep arrows do the damage indicated on the bow weapon token, in other words you have to have a bow to use the special arrows or bolts.  You slide your bow token and the arrow token augments your shot (if successful).<br /><br />

<br />Lastly, am I missing anything, should there be some arguement to always shoot if you get the initiative or are the bows and arrows there for the "just in case" moments like if you did get stuck in the shambler trap, or the year you had to shoot across a chasm?<br />

<br />There is a special pre-initiative round where only ranged weapons are allowed.  With no penalty for switching from ranged to melee, there is no reason whay you should not take the shot if that option is available.  Otherwise the use of ranged weapons is generally situational.  For example, you never know when you might fight a monster where engaging in melee might cause damage from contact or proximity...<br /><br />

Thank you for clearing the cobwebs, Dave.

if using the ranger think about this.<br />2 daggers of throwing- return so you can use them again the next round or switch to melee<br />bracers of archery- +2 to damage<br />girdle of hill giant strength- +1 damaage<br />gloves of dexterity- +1 to hit and ac<br />potion of bull strength - +2 damage<br />potion of cat's grace- +2 to hit and ac<br /><br />total of: +3 to hit and ac and +5 damage(for EACH dagger)

<br />if using the ranger think about this.<br />2 daggers of throwing- return so you can use them again the next round or switch to melee<br />bracers of archery- +2 to damage<br />girdle of hill giant strength- +1 damaage<br />gloves of dexterity- +1 to hit and ac<br />potion of bull strength - +2 damage<br />potion of cat's grace- +2 to hit and ac<br /><br />total of: +3 to hit and ac and +5 damage(for EACH dagger)<br />

<br /><br />Ooh. That is pretty nice, assuming you've got the time to drink the potions and buff up.

I consider it an honor that the master of the rogues guild think that it is nice....if you give up the girlde of hill giant strength for something else you would have time to buff up and you would only lose one point from damage(for each dagger) still worth it I think...

<br />I consider it an honor that the master of the rogues guild think that it is nice....<br />(snip)<br />

<br /><br />(grin)<br />Thanks!

forgot about that....