TOPIC: Re: Need Your Token Ideas for 2008!

<br />What about removing all the current weapons and replacing them with weapons that are able to be more cheaply made, which would fit in with the "at war" setting. This way we dump the longsword, but replace it with a weapon that does the same damage, and the same with the other weapons.<br /><br />Common weapons we have now:<br />edged d4, edged d6x2, edged d8, blunt d6, blunt d8, ranged d4, ranged d6<br /><br />Suggested new commons:<br />Dagger d4 (can't go wrong with that, maybe call it a knife)<br />Sickle d6<br />Shortspear d6<br />Spear d8<br />Club d6<br />Flail d8<br />Dart d4 expendible<br />Javilin d6 expendible<br /><br />Current uncommons<br />Edged d10 x4, Ranged d8<br /><br />Suggested new uncommons<br />Halbard d10<br />Glaive d10<br />GreatClub d10<br />Harpoon d8 expendible<br /><br />Do people like these?<br /><br />If people think there cool, then the weapon reds and purples would be made from these new items.<br /><br />

<br /><br /><br />That's more along the lines of what I was going for.  <br />I was, however, thinking of "retiring" Full Plate for a year with the exception of finding it in the dungeon.<br />I figured Elven Chain should be removed as well, except as possible dungeon treasure.  In all honesty, the game got along find without an AC5 item before this was introduced.  Let's just think about whether or not it truly needs to be replaced this year with another AC5 item and, if does, then let's come up with something non-standard that fits in with the theme. 

Great chart Mike.  I'd have to copy it to notepad and stare at it and let it sink it, but that's a great way to help keep things on a level comparable with what already exists.  Hopefully, TD will maintain such a list in the future.<br /><br />I'd recommend adding the MIN values as well, so there's a range and people aren't always shooting for the Max.<br /><br />

<br />Great chart Mike.  I'd have to copy it to notepad and stare at it and let it sink it, but that's a great way to help keep things on a level comparable with what already exists.  Hopefully, TD will maintain such a list in the future.<br /><br />I'd recommend adding the MIN values as well, so there's a range and people aren't always shooting for the Max.<br />

<br /><br />I'll keep updating this chart as the conversation continues.  I'll see about added "MIN" but I don't think that will really provide that much meaning (It most cases MIN is 1, even on many URs).  All told I should probably add average damage though.

<br />For example, turn the token in and you get to play as a Drow. <br />

<br /><br />And why do you foolish surface dwellers think you would be good enough?    =D<br /><br />Maybe something could be done like this that could be an interesting twist to the story line.  (but not a Drow - we're special)

Wow - nice chart, Mike. Lots of work went into that!<br /><br />I agree with you, & John. It's a good reference for building items that avoid (or minimize) power creep.<br />I think I'll use it when pondering token sets later tonight.

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<br />Great chart Mike.  I'd have to copy it to notepad and stare at it and let it sink it, but that's a great way to help keep things on a level comparable with what already exists.  Hopefully, TD will maintain such a list in the future.<br /><br />I'd recommend adding the MIN values as well, so there's a range and people aren't always shooting for the Max.<br />

<br /><br />I'll keep updating this chart as the conversation continues.  I'll see about added "MIN" but I don't think that will really provide that much meaning (It most cases MIN is 1, even on many URs).  All told I should probably add average damage though.<br />

<br /><br />I agree that adding in average damage would be VERY helpful!  Oh, and I think currently Gearon's +2 Mace adds 1 damage if undead, not 3. 

<br />I agree that adding in average damage would be VERY helpful!  Oh, and I think currently Gearon's +2 Mace adds 1 damage if undead, not 3.  <br />

<br /><br />The picture in the token guide shows Gearon's as +3 vs. Undead.  If the picture is wrong let me know, if I get a minute I'll check my token at home.<br /><br />I'm working on averages, I'm not sure if I'll get it updated tonight or not.  I'll post when it is.

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<br />I agree that adding in average damage would be VERY helpful!  Oh, and I think currently Gearon's +2 Mace adds 1 damage if undead, not 3.  <br />

<br /><br />The picture in the token guide shows Gearon's as +3 vs. Undead.  If the picture is wrong let me know, if I get a minute I'll check my token at home.<br /><br />I'm working on averages, I'm not sure if I'll get it updated tonight or not.  I'll post when it is.<br />

<br /><br />On the Gearon's Mace, it means +3 Damage instead of +2 Damage, so it's one additional damage. 

Wow...awesome ideas and feedback.  Thanks to everyone for their suggestions and that awesome chart Mike.<br /><br />And thanks for the war-time idea John, but we are going in a slightly different area.  From now on, some of the treasure tokens you find will be directly tied to the environment you are adventuring in that year.  So, if in 2008 we have an adventure set in an old haunted monastery which was famous for the spirits it made, you might find a lot of treasure related to spirits or even the evil army that is swarming the place.  Most of these "location specific" items will be GP-related like a crystal decanter (worth 15 GP) or an Orc Scourge (barbed whip).<br /><br />Whatever we come up with -- some of the items will be altered to fit this year's adventure envirnoment.  This idea was explored with the Alchemist Pouch this year, and it will roll forward into the regular tokens in 2008.  And again...we will have a few "dungeon only" tokens as well.<br /><br />Keep your ideas coming -- and thanks for all the great ideas in the early Topic last year.  Both are wells of inspiration.  And please don't be offended if we don't use your ideas!  We can't use them all, but maybe next year we can use it.  (Just ask Douglas!)<br /><br />Thanks again and I will do whatever I can to keep the "power creep" from happening in 2008. 

Weapon averages have been added to the table above (The xls sheet that I was doing the averages with is attached to the post as well).

<br />It was going to be an inevtiable problem. The real killer was giving everyone a free bag of tokens with their ticket while keeping the whole idea of you don't need tokens to complete the adventure (barring a weapon). That opens the gulf between participants as some will get lucky with their draws and some won't. Some will have tokens over years just from running the event. It dosen't even take into consideration those who purchase additional or not. It makes it _very_ hard to scale the event properly. Even newbie parties are outfited pretty well nowadays since good armor isn't exactly hard to find. Unfortunately, the genie is out of the lamp and there's no way to stuff it back inside that I can see. You can fiddle with the token lists all you want but there's very little that can be done to mitigate things.<br />

<br /><br />Oh god... I... I think I'm going to be ill... I somewhat agree with Henwy. Someone hand me a mint. I feel dirty.

I had an idea about the storyline affecting the tokens that might make more sense than having things go up in rarity. What if all of a sudden only a certain amount of smiths from Greyhawk were now working on outfitting the adventuring groups. Maybe named items such as Greyhawk's Smeary +1 longsword is now available to people because he is one of the last weaponsmiths to be working at the forges. I understand that in a time of war things should go scarce but if you want something to add character to the token's give basic equipment special names and maybe bump them up one level. This could also be a good background story for in the tavern and as promoting the event. Also I think that it would add to the collectibles that tokenholics want from their tokens each year. <br /><br />I understand this may not be feasible or explained properly but since I am not good at figuring out rules (which you definitely need to come up with for new tokens) I thought I would go for a more story based idea for the tokens.  =)<br /><br />Lady Myke