TOPIC: Re: Why did people do token trading?

I do not purport to be an expert on live open auctions, but there is a real psychology to auctions that professional auction attendees use with great success.  I have used them a couple of times and in my small victories they worked--for what it is worth.  First you research and know what you are buying and what you are willing to spend.  Most people bid on emotion.  You need to bid with purpose.  Second is position in the room--always be on the side at the front--not looking at the auctioneer, but at the crowd.  You want to see who is bidding and try to ascertain why they are bidding.  The best thing to happen is for two people to get into an upmanship bidding match.  You remain absolutely silent.  They will usually go up equal amounts $1, $5 whatever until one drops out.  Third--when the auctioneer finally begins to close the auction you step in with a bid 3 or 4 times what they have been bidding up (if it is still within your budget range).  I have seen this absolutely deflate a bidder.  In his/her mind they are thinking "I got it.  I won.  I beat back they other guy.  What?? Somebody new who increasing the bid amount??  I'm out."  I've seen it work.  If that is sniping, so be it.  It goes on all the time in auctions, live or not.  The other option is go to a store and pay what they are asking for an item.<br /><br />Just some thoughts.  I can see it now--next TD auction 20 people standing at the front looking back at empty chairs waiting for someone to bid-- =D<br /><br /><br />Widseth

I also think that when you are with a group of friends, it is sometimes difficult to keep bidding when you know that you are keeping someone you like from getting something they want as well.  So you might give up before you really want to...<br /><br /><br />Ugh.  Jeff... see what you did by making me be a DM in room 1 this year?  I lost some of my evilness!  I need to either be a Drow again, or be in a room where I can TPK!    :evil6:

Didn't some kid win the armband for 40 gp?  His memory of winning something so cool when he didn't probably expect to is priceless and has immense value.  These are the types of things that bring new players back.<br /><br />Kim

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<br />The smart bidders kept the cards close to their chest, made no bids during Open Auction and then aggressively went after the item they wanted in Closed.<br />

<br /><br />I would prefer the type of open auction we had for 2007.  I like to see if I'm going to get outbid so I can concentrate my GP elsewhere.  I would be disappointed to bid silently and find I was grossly underbidding.<br />By the same token, I'd hate to overbid due to a silent auction.<br />Want to stop sniping?  Doesn't a live and open auction do this?  <br /><br />Just thinking aloud.<br /><br />

<br /><br />The big advantage to a silent auction or modified silent auction is bidders dont have to be there.<br /><br />In 2006 we had a modified silent auction and many people won items.  <br /><br />In 2007 we had a live and open auction and two people got almost all the items being auctioned.   Since I was one of two people I am not complaining but it seemed unfair to the rest of you.  There were a lot of people with a lot of reserve token who did not attend the auction.  (I know Gary was working and I assume many other volunteers were also).  <br />

Actually George, the Auction was a non-priority for me.<br /><br />As cool as all the stuff was - I wanted to keep my Reserve tokens.<br /><br />Had the alternate art tokens been pictures of stuff I had sent in - I might have kicked myself for missing those...but other than that, there was not too much tempting me.<br /><br />And besides - hopefully those that wanted things most ended up with them.<br /><br />Don't get me wrong - I totally love the early set of Cleric beads - but they are actually more-so special because you gave them to me with such a kind and friendly gesture!!!  Had I won them - then they would just be another trinket...make sense?

Pfffft. No one bought anything for me at the auction.

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<br />The smart bidders kept the cards close to their chest, made no bids during Open Auction and then aggressively went after the item they wanted in Closed.<br />

<br /><br />I would prefer the type of open auction we had for 2007.  I like to see if I'm going to get outbid so I can concentrate my GP elsewhere.  I would be disappointed to bid silently and find I was grossly underbidding.<br />By the same token, I'd hate to overbid due to a silent auction.<br />Want to stop sniping?  Doesn't a live and open auction do this?  <br /><br />Just thinking aloud.<br /><br />

<br /><br />The big advantage to a silent auction or modified silent auction is bidders dont have to be there.<br /><br />In 2006 we had a modified silent auction and many people won items.  <br /><br />In 2007 we had a live and open auction and two people got almost all the items being auctioned.   Since I was one of two people I am not complaining but it seemed unfair to the rest of you.  There were a lot of people with a lot of reserve token who did not attend the auction.  (I know Gary was working and I assume many other volunteers were also).  <br /><br />

<br /><br />The difference in participation between the two years might be in part because of the silent vs. live nature of the auctions, but other variables are the fact that only reserve tokens could be used (perhaps there are people with gold/gems that would have bid if there weren't the limitation of just reserve tokens) and the items being auctioned (two years ago the Artisan tokens - only four of each produced - were a huge draw, perhaps props and the like aren't quite as big a draw as limited edition ultra-rare tokens).  I'm sure there are even other factors beyond those to consider. 

<br />I am still puzzled by Douglas' comment that the auction was a failure.   As I understood the purpose of the auction was to give people something to spend gold on.  The auction from that standpoint was a HUGE success. <br />

<br /><br />Well, as I said, failure is too strong of a word.  First, of course you need to ask what the purpose of this auction was?<br /><br />1) Give people something to spend gold on?<br />Well, ok, if this was the goal, then it succeeded.  People spent gold.  But there are a lot of ways for people to spend gold, some better than others.<br /><br />2) Take as much Gold out of circulation as possible?<br />This might or might not have been a success.  Certainly the 40GP and the 600GP items would have sold for more.  The 15,000GP item would have sold for less.<br /><br />3) Create something for both the token rich and poor?<br />The average Artisan token sold for 3200+GP and of those sold only one sold for less than 600GP.  So this really wasn't for those who didn't have a lot of tokens.  You needed a significant amount of gold to even have a chance.  The 40GP sale was because of a miscommunication.<br /><br />4) Sell thing for their true value (or as much as possible)?<br />This is usually the purpose of an auction (e.g. eBay), to sell things for what they are worth and clearly, things did not sell for their true value.  <br /><br />5) Create something that was simple and exciting for many people?<br />I don't know.  Individually, this is subjective of course.  I think being able to bid on more than just one item would have been more exciting.  And given the (not surprisingly) low number of bids during the Open Auction, not that many people participated in this portion.  I am sure the 18 people that won had fun.  And anyone with less than 600GP didn't have a chance of winning so it wasn't that exciting for those among the token poor.<br /><br />The 40GP token was due to a miscommunication and not some side benefit of this auction format.  Assuming there are no miscommunications, this isn't likely to be repeated.<br /><br />So was it a success?  Well, that depends on who you ask I guess.  =|<br /> 

<br />Didn't some kid win the armband for 40 gp?  His memory of winning something so cool when he didn't probably expect to is priceless and has immense value.  These are the types of things that bring new players back.<br /><br />Kim<br />

<br /><br />Kim,<br /><br />It was some guy carrying a large binder who seemed more perplexed than anything.  The 40GP was due solely to a miscommunication among several bidders and not because of this particular auction format.  It isn't likely to happen again.<br /><br />But let me ask, what about the kid who bid 200 GP on the Wolf Ring only to see it sold for 5000 GP?  Or the kid who bid 150 GP on the Dragon Ring only to be disappointed when he saw it go for 15,000 GP?  How likely are those that people to participate in future auctions?  They probably feel like they don't stand much of a chance.  :/  <br /><br />-D<br /><br />

Douglas,<br /><br />Thank you very much for explaining those points and your point of view on the matter.

i liked the auction from this year over last year. both were really good at accomplishing their their goal; to give players something more to do with their gold besides the occasional in dungeon use. are auction for the token affluent? nope; they are for everyone. you will not go to an auction in your neighborhood without money and expect much return. strange things happen though (40GP armband and 15k ring).<br /><br /> i did not care for the one winning bid thing in 2006, but those are the rules and i understand.<br /><br /> i preferred the 2007 auction. as widseth pointed out, you can eye the competition. you can gauge the determination. i loved going to auctions with my grandfather and just watching the whole "different" persona that comes over folks.<br /><br /> i might have a solution for the "people committed elsewhere" problem from this year. you can have the items up for bid throughout the con. the person would write down what item and what they bid and "PAY" that amount. this is with the understanding then that their BID will be the starting price on saturday and they can still be outbid. they will then have until teardown or whatever to claim their prize or reserve bars.<br /><br />just my 15k gp's.

This year world out fine for those with a good chunk of change, but there was no equivalent of a 40 gp elven armband, I'll wager. It's just not possible with the auction format.<br /><br />One thing to remember is that the goal of ebay and the goal of TD is nowhere near synonymous. I'll be the first to admit that an open auction format brings the highest prices. That's why ebay adopted it and why it's been a success. TD's goal, I assume, was to give people something to spend their gold on and the open format effectively excludes those without a significant bankroll. There's no chance for the unlikely win because in order to win, you have to have the tacit agreement of every other bidder.