TOPIC: Re: Why did people do token trading?

Failure? What in the world exactly constitutes a failure from TD's standpoint? If we're talking about the amount of gold bid, then it was certainly a success. From what I recall, people were all very positive on the auction after the fact. I recall some chargrin over letting the 40 gp armband get away, but I don't recall anyone really bitching about it. Based on everything that could be considered part of TD's interests, it was a success.<br /><br />In fact, I would argue that doing the change to what you're suggesting would be the actual failure from TD's PoV. Once it was known that the armband went for only 40 gp, that would surely drive up participation if there were any future silent closed auctions. After all, _everyone_ has a shot based on that figure and might try just to see if they also got lucky. For a true open auction, the only ones who need show up are those with a bankroll beyond the grasp of 95% of TD particpants. That surely cannot be in TD's interests.

The Bid sheets open from 9am-6pm were weighed in with the closed bid sheets from 6pm-7pm.<br />If only the closed bid sheets counted than not all the items would have sold. So I don't know how you can say the open bid sheets from 9am-6pm don't count.

<br />The Bid sheets open from 9am-6pm were weighed in with the closed bid sheets from 6pm-7pm.<br />If only the closed bid sheets counted than not all the items would have sold. So I don't know how you can say the open bid sheets from 9am-6pm don't count.<br />

<br /><br />The only items that wouldn't have sold were the Mermaid Necklace (I think) for 612GP and the 40GP Elven Armband and that was because of a miscommunication.  When Heidi was going through it all at the end, I believe everything else had bids in the boxes.<br /><br />But assuming someone was around for the closed portion of the auction, there was no advantage to bidding during the open portion.  All it did was tell people that the item was in demand and thus high bids were going to be needed and it told people exactly what they needed to beat to win the item during the closed auction.  The smart bidders kept the cards close to their chest, made no bids during Open Auction and then aggressively went after the item they wanted in Closed.

I agree, I don't think that having an item go for 40 GP and another for 15,000 GP constitutes a failure.  It accomplished the goals of getting a lot of GP out of the system and letting people get cool stuff in an auction, and also sent a message that you can get lucky participating and get something for relatively little - giving hope to those without much gold.  I wouldn't mind having it done the same way again.

Douglas,<br />The reason I set the auction up the way I did was to allow the open part to set some sort of baseline bid for the closed part.  If you knew, walking up to the table that the maximum open bid in the closed session was 1K in GP and you only had 100GP, well it was kind of pointless to bid on that item. If however the max bid in the open was 40GP and you had 100GP, then maybe you had a chance in the closed session, and clearly someone did. <br /><br />In the end it did not matter that someone could pace a bid for 10K in a box. <br /><br />By having the closed portion, I was trying to prevent the typical e-bay sniping  (Which I absolutely hate, constantly driving up the price by 1GP).  You had to look at the min starting bid and make a guess about how much would win, an element of chance.  <br /><br />Now the fact that some got together and decided to drive the bidding up on one particular item against one individual who wanted it, was unfortunate and unintended.  If everyone had kept their mouth closed about bids and the values, that might not have happened.  It was also clear that if that one individual had decided to pull his winning bid at the last minute, several people might have been disqualified for having multiple bids.  <br /><br />It is also possible that the bid sniping might have happened anyway, I can not prevent everything.<br /><br />By having an open portion I was trying to give something for those with not so much gold to look forward to and to play at during the day, or at least realize they were outbid from the start.  The closed portion was simply there to prevent the e-bay bid drive at the last minute.  The fact you could only bid on one thing and not be disqualified was trying to prevent one person from taking every item.<br /><br />I am sorry you clearly did not like my strategy, design, and methodology, but it was left up to me and I made the decision.<br /><br />Dave<br />

Dave,<br /><br />I understand that you designed a system that attempted to make as many people happy as possible and that you guys worked hard on coming up with the Rules.  I went back through some of our old discussions when this was announced and clearly there was a lot of thought that went into this. <br /><br />But if we want to create something that people with 100GP can enjoy, we should have a raffle.  The 40GP sale was due to miscommunication as Joyus pointed out.  All auctions save 3 sold for more than 1000GP and the average was 3200GP+.  So being honest, this auction was for the wealthy.  <br /><br />I liked the idea of people only being able to win one token (in principal, as people could still have proxy bidders).  But only being able to bid on one auction caused problems I think.  <br /><br />The solution to sniping is just extend the auction by 1 minute if a bid is made during the last minute of the auction (or 5 during the last 5 or whatever) and if there are two people going back and forth, just move into a Live Open auction until its resolved.  You also have minimum raise increments based on the current price (prevents the 1GP back and forth).  This is what eBay (and many auction houses) do.<br /><br />To say that the auction was a failure was perhaps a bit of an overstatement but there were areas where the auction format could be improved. <br /><br />Dave, thanks for all your hardwork and dedication.    You are the bestest!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />

A raffle is not a bad idea - one prize anyone can try for, with tix costing 50 or 100 gp, one ticket per person.<br /><br />

<br />But if we want to create something that people with 100GP can enjoy, we should have a raffle.  The 40GP sale was due to miscommunication as Joyus pointed out.  All auctions save 3 sold for more than 1000GP and the average was 3200GP+.  So being honest, this auction was for the wealthy.  <br />

<br />Um, it was an auction of Ultra Rares with only 4 in existance of each item which puts them on par with the Ring of 3 wishes, of course it was for the wealthy!<br />It you want an auction for people with 100 GP, then you should have items of varying rarity not of just Very Rare Ultra Rare tokens.

I am still puzzled by Douglas' comment that the auction was a failure.  As I understood the purpose of the auction was to give people something to spend gold on.  The auction from that standpoint was a HUGE success. <br /><br /><br /><br />

<br />The smart bidders kept the cards close to their chest, made no bids during Open Auction and then aggressively went after the item they wanted in Closed.<br />

<br /><br />I would prefer the type of open auction we had for 2007.  I like to see if I'm going to get outbid so I can concentrate my GP elsewhere.  I would be disappointed to bid silently and find I was grossly underbidding.<br />By the same token, I'd hate to overbid due to a silent auction.<br />Want to stop sniping?  Doesn't a live and open auction do this?  <br /><br />Just thinking aloud.<br />

<br />I am still puzzled by Douglas' comment that the auction was a failure.   As I understood the purpose of the auction was to give people something to spend gold on.  The auction from that standpoint was a HUGE success. <br />

<br /><br /> <br /><br />I wasn't even here in 2006 so I don;t even know what I'm talking about. Ignore me. 

*ignoring Turnip*<br />