TOPIC: 25-Rares-to-Trade

Well, Jeff, I can only speak for myself on this one, but my 125 Red supply went down to about 25 Reds.<br />Given the uncertainty of the exchange, I decided to try for a full set of platinum tokens (except URs).  In doing so, I've used up most of my expendible reds (I'm keeping a full set of gold tokens too, so at least one of every Red is not usable for the exchange).<br /><br />So...I'm up for one UR.  <br /><br />Maybe you already had this up your sleeve, but you could always make a one-time-only UUR for 100 Reds or something.<br /><br /><br />JKW

<br />There is already an auction planned for TD Props - if the UR supply is limited, why not move them from the exchange to the auction.<br />(snip)<br /> And, it would be more fair, by letting the UR's go to the highest bidder instead of just who was lucky enough to get in the front of the line.

<br /><br />I really, really disagree with this, Mike.<br /><br />Auctions are not fair. Giving things to the 'highest bidder' is not fair.<br /><br />I'm not saying auctions are bad - just that they have a purpose, and that purpose is completely irrelvant to any concept of 'fairness'. Auctions are a method of collecting the largest bid possible for an item with multiple potential buyers. They are an excellent way to raise money for a cause (charity auctions, like the Katrina run) or for an individual to get the best selling price possible for their product (I'm thinking eBay, or the GenCon auction). <br /><br />Saying "auctions are more fair"* is like saying "it is fair for the richest people to have everything, and the poorest to have nothing". I most emphatically disagree.<br /><br />(okay, back away, and take a breath. Whew. Better.)<br /><br />I'll hazard a guess here, that Jeff wasn't trying to acquire tokens, via the token exchange. He wanted to provide players with the opportunity to 'upgrade' where they might not have had that opportunity otherwise (I doubt any trader would accept 25 slings for 1 uncommon token). Yes, it's a token sink, but it's more than that - it's a game of chance which even the casual player could take a shot at. The fact that he extended it to trading for URs is very cool! I don't think that standing in line in unfair, or that people should be upset if they don't get their chance at a UR.<br /><br />I really hope the token exchange remains as it is. Even if there are some high end traders who don't get a shot at a UR like they were hoping, it's a neat twist on the trading game.<br /><br />my 2gp,<br />             - Raven<br /><br />* and I realize this might not be precisely what you are saying, it's just what I got out of the statement. Apologies if I misconstrued your statement, or over-reacted.

Correct, Raven.  Jeff seemed to indicate he wanted to something nice for the TDers and he seemed interested in ensuring that everyone from the low-end to high-end purchases are happy.<br /><br />I was thinking that if they go to auction, I'd find other uses for my tokens.  I agree with you on that.

<br />

<br />There is already an auction planned for TD Props - if the UR supply is limited, why not move them from the exchange to the auction.<br />(snip)<br /> And, it would be more fair, by letting the UR's go to the highest bidder instead of just who was lucky enough to get in the front of the line.

<br /><br />I really, really disagree with this, Mike.<br /><br />Auctions are not fair. Giving things to the 'highest bidder' is not fair.<br /><br />I'm not saying auctions are bad - just that they have a purpose, and that purpose is completely irrelvant to any concept of 'fairness'. Auctions are a method of collecting the largest bid possible for an item with multiple potential buyers. They are an excellent way to raise money for a cause (charity auctions, like the Katrina run) or for an individual to get the best selling price possible for their product (I'm thinking eBay, or the GenCon auction). <br /><br />Saying "auctions are more fair"* is like saying "it is fair for the richest people to have everything, and the poorest to have nothing". I most emphatically disagree.<br /><br />(okay, back away, and take a breath. Whew. Better.)<br /><br />I'll hazard a guess here, that Jeff wasn't trying to acquire tokens, via the token exchange. He wanted to provide players with the opportunity to 'upgrade' where they might not have had that opportunity otherwise (I doubt any trader would accept 25 slings for 1 uncommon token). Yes, it's a token sink, but it's more than that - it's a game of chance which even the casual player could take a shot at. The fact that he extended it to trading for URs is very cool! I don't think that standing in line in unfair, or that people should be upset if they don't get their chance at a UR.<br /><br />I really hope the token exchange remains as it is. Even if there are some high end traders who don't get a shot at a UR like they were hoping, it's a neat twist on the trading game.<br /><br />my 2gp,<br />             - Raven<br /><br />* and I realize this might not be precisely what you are saying, it's just what I got out of the statement. Apologies if I misconstrued your statement, or over-reacted.<br />

<br /><br />Hi Raven,<br /><br />I'm not sure I'll participate in the token swap or an auction - so I don't really have a horse in this race.  <br /><br />I guess you'd have to define "fair" - it's really subjective from each person's point of view.  I'm guessing if you have the token swap as originally defined and the person who is 10th in line watches the 9th person in line trade for the final ultra-rare, they will feel that is unfair.  Especially if that person brought 125 Reds hoping to trade for multiple Ultra-Rares, and walks out with nothing.  At the same time I can see how someone would view an auction as unfair if every item goes for more than your maximum possible bid.  <br /><br />Maybe some combination could be done - perhaps one of each Ultra-Rare would be available for random swapping (perhaps by a lottery system if there are more people interested than tokens) and one of each Ultra-Rare would be available for an auction.  That way the smaller token buyers still have a shot at a token in the lottery for the swap, while at the same time the huge token buyers can really use their HUGE piles of excess tokens to get something they'll use in the dungeon (or add to their collection) through the auctions.  Why not tailor the event so that it addresses both the small buyer with just 25 Reds hoping to trade in for a PURP as well as the large token buyer with 500 Reds (and huge piles of Greens & Browns as well) happy to trade all of it for one or more top tokens.  And that will help clear out all the excess tokens of both the large and small buyers.  The Token Swap as originally designed won't make much of a dent on the top token buyers stashes of excess tokens.  <br /><br />I do think that an auction would work better as a token sink, absorbing more tokens of all rarities from buyers.  That helps True Dungeon's long-term health, because if people regularly trade in most/all of their excess tokens they will be more likely to buy more tokens in the future.  You'll likely see some Ultra-Rares going for WAAAY in excess of 25 Reds.  Add in the tokens that will be gotten from a token swap, and Jeff should acquire a large amount of tokens from this, that can help offset his costs of buying tokens to stock the dungeons with tokens throughout the weekend (all he has to do is mix in Ultra-Rares and High Value Rares).  And that might result in a lot more tokens made available for us to find in the dungeon.  That is win-win for True Dungeon and for True Dungeon fans.  <br /><br />Thanks!<br />Mike

A raffle is better than an auction in terms of fairness...<br /><br />Those with more REDS to burn can buy more tickets and increase their odds of winning...but in a bucket of 100 tickets having a 10% chance is still a longshot.<br /><br />I don't think I care for any of this trade in business...I agree with Henwy - there are many demons behind the good idea...and they are ugly ones...

It does seem like it would make commons obsolete.  Save the few useful ones and the rest would all be cashed in "en masse".

oooo - I found my list!  I knew I wrote it down before I put it into an e-mail to Jeff...<br /><br />Here goes:<br /><br />5xSpider Elf Boots<br />5xSpider Mage Armor<br />5xSpider 50GP<br />5x2007 Mage Armor<br />5x2007 Keen Edge<br /><br />5x2007 E Cloak<br />5x2007 Oil Ghost<br />5x2007 Oil Holy<br />5x2007 75GP gem<br />5x2007 Elf Boots<br /><br />OK those 2007 items are ones I guessed at getting LOTS of - and could part with.<br /><br />Now that the hoard is assembled, I can do those two lists above AND two more:<br /><br />5x2007 Wand Frost<br />10x2007 short swords +1<br />10x2007 great swords +1<br /><br />10x2007 Ruby Rings<br />5x2007 short swords +1<br />5x2007 mage armor<br />5x2007 oil ghost touch<br /><br />G

<br />A raffle is better than an auction in terms of fairness...<br /><br />Those with more REDS to burn can buy more tickets and increase their odds of winning...but in a bucket of 100 tickets having a 10% chance is still a longshot.<br /><br />I don't think I care for any of this trade in business...I agree with Henwy - there are many demons behind the good idea...and they are ugly ones...<br />

<br /><br />For the Raffle, all I was thinking was Jeff asking who is interested, and each interested person getting one ticket in the Raffle.  That is if there are more than 20 people wanting to do a trade in - 20 or less and everybody can get one trade in if the limit is one UR trade per person and there is a full set of PURPs in there.  <br /><br />The auction would be no different from the Artisan auctions last year, except instead of bidding in GP and Gems, you'd be bidding in Rares and Rare Equivalents (10 packs of uncommons and 250 packs of commons).  The Artisan auctions worked fine last year, so some version of auctions should work fine this year. <br /><br />Gold and Gems are still required for all Combo tokens, so they still have unique requirements and would still be highly valued.  <br /><br />Oh - and Bro - I'd swap you some Rares for those Ruby Rings and maybe +1 weapons if you do go that route. 

Big difference - Artisans = useless things created to give gold a use...<br /><br />Getting UR PURPS for ITEMS increases the gap the big buyers have over the average/small buyers...<br /><br />But I'm not getting sucked into the debate...<br /><br />I just think the idea should be thrown out - there are much more fun things to be doing with our time and resources.<br /><br />oh - the rings - they were just in there to tempt Raven - you know she can't resist the shineys!

<br />oooo - I found my list!  I knew I wrote it down before I put it into an e-mail to Jeff...<br /><br />Here goes:<br /><br />10x2007 Ruby Rings

<br /><br />NOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooOOOOOooooooo! <br /><br />Not the Ruby Rings!!!<br /><br />(flings self down in Gary's Path)<br /><br />You can't sacrifice the Ruby Rings! I'll trade for them (if you're really planning to trade 'em in, that is) <br />I'm sure I have another 10 spare reds around here, somewhere! Ruby Rings are too pretty to sacrifice to the Great Purple gods.<br />

10 Ruby rings for 1 Saphire Necklace...that is 2:1 GP value...<br /><br />I might consider that!  muhahahaha

<br />oh - the rings - they were just in there to tempt Raven - you know she can't resist the shineys!<br />

<br /><br />Arg! Grrrrrrrr... why you!<br /><br />You know, I posted my reply above before getting to this last message of yours. I just saw the "10 Ruby Rings", my eyes bugged out, and I hit 'Reply'. I didn't finish reading the thread.<br /><br />I was smacking my head when I got to your next message.<br /><br />Tsk.<br /><br />