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TOPIC: What works with bead of the cleaver?

What works with bead of the cleaver? 1 year 1 month ago #1

Let’s say I have a dwarf Fighter that has equipped:

Melee mainhand: +2 Death cleaver
Ranged Mainhand: +1 dwarven hurled insult
Bead: Bead of the Cleaver

Does the bead affect the death cleaver (2H axe looking weapon)? The hurled insults (art is an axe)? Or does the bead do nothing?

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What works with bead of the cleaver? 1 year 1 month ago #2

My opinion is as long as you are a Dwarf Fighter, it should work on both, as they look like axes to me.

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What works with bead of the cleaver? 1 year 1 month ago #3

Endgame wrote: Does the bead affect the death cleaver (2H axe looking weapon)? The hurled insults (art is an axe)? Or does the bead do nothing?

Great question. The TDb description for Bead of the Cleaver now defines what's compatible with it. In your example, the bead does nothing. See this post for an update.

I can see why folks may be disappointed by this ruling, but we need to have concrete definitions whenever possible to avoid ambiguity and butthurtedness because one DM's definition of what looks like an axe is different from another's.
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Last edit: by Druegar.

What works with bead of the cleaver? 1 year 1 month ago #4

TokenDB wrote: Simply having the letters a, x, and e in succession is not sufficient. E.g., if there were such a thing as a “Paraxeum Sword”, it would not compatible with this bead.


Nice preemptive addition there, I see you have played trading card games before :laugh:
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What works with bead of the cleaver? 1 year 1 month ago #5

Iross wrote:

TokenDB wrote: Simply having the letters a, x, and e in succession is not sufficient. E.g., if there were such a thing as a “Paraxeum Sword”, it would not compatible with this bead.


Nice preemptive addition there, I see you have played trading card games before :laugh:


Or interacted with *very* literal gamers.
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What works with bead of the cleaver? 1 year 1 month ago #6

So Bead of the Cleaver.... doesn't work with Cleavers.

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What works with bead of the cleaver? 1 year 1 month ago #7

Need to remember this during token design. The creative name “hurled insults” is inferior in character builds to the original “+1 Dwarven throwing axe”

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What works with bead of the cleaver? 1 year 1 month ago #8

Endgame wrote: Need to remember this during token design. The creative name “hurled insults” is inferior in character builds to the original “+1 Dwarven throwing axe”


While technically correct (the best kind) we are talking about an uncommon bead. I think it's ok to have fun names, even if they make a particular token alittle worse.
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What works with bead of the cleaver? 1 year 1 month ago #9

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: While technically correct (the best kind) we are talking about an uncommon bead. I think it's ok to have fun names, even if they make a particular token alittle worse.


Imagine having to explain to a new player who just got his first tokens that his axe like weapon isn't an axe and he can't use it with the uncommon bead he got. Seems like we're trying to limit things for limit sake and not for any other reason. Add a weapon classification and let the people have their fun. Deathcleaver is an Axe.

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What works with bead of the cleaver? 1 year 1 month ago #10

Kusig wrote:

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote: While technically correct (the best kind) we are talking about an uncommon bead. I think it's ok to have fun names, even if they make a particular token alittle worse.


Imagine having to explain to a new player who just got his first tokens that his axe like weapon isn't an axe and he can't use it with the uncommon bead he got. Seems like we're trying to limit things for limit sake and not for any other reason. Add a weapon classification and let the people have their fun. Deathcleaver is an Axe.


I agree with Kusig here. Maybe we need to add a weapon classification to say what each weapon is . Seems like anyone with a Deathcleaver will likely have more competitive beads than Bead of the Cleaver. But even if not seems like making the game more intuitive should outweigh this small incremental gain.

I mean can you imagine a new player with a +1 dwarven hurled insult and a Bead of the Cleaver. Yeah sure that looks like an axe, but it's just not, cause it doesn't say axe.

By that logic a Holy Avenger isn't a sword.

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What works with bead of the cleaver? 1 year 1 month ago #11

Sorry but my Munchkin side has to jump in here.

A cleaver isn’t an axe per Webster.

Axe definition:
A cutting tool that consists of a heavy edged head fixed to a handle with the edge parallel to the handle and that is used especially for felling trees and chopping and splitting wood.

Cleaver definition:
A butcher's implement for cutting animal carcasses into joints or pieces

Axes must have a head edge parallel to the handle to qualify. Some, but not all cleavers, would qualify. If the blade curves at all, it wouldn’t be strictly parallel. Lixy, for example, makes a really nice cleaver where the point is almost a straight line from the start of the handle (ie both the handle and blade curve.)

Stepping outside of the technical definition, as an uncommon, it probably shouldn’t rival the power level of the Enchanter’s Whetstone. The Whetstone is +1/+1 but only for rare weapons. The cleaver applies to dozens of weapons already. As soon as we expand beyond “axe” - you can make a good argument for a Halberd type of axe or even a gladius or other short swords where the blade is large.

This seems pretty reasonable.
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What works with bead of the cleaver? 1 year 1 month ago #12

Fred K wrote: Sorry but my Munchkin side has to jump in here.

A cleaver isn’t an axe per Webster.

Axe definition:
A cutting tool that consists of a heavy edged head fixed to a handle with the edge parallel to the handle and that is used especially for felling trees and chopping and splitting wood.

Cleaver definition:
A butcher's implement for cutting animal carcasses into joints or pieces

Axes must have a head edge parallel to the handle to qualify. Some, but not all cleavers, would qualify. If the blade curves at all, it wouldn’t be strictly parallel. Lixy, for example, makes a really nice cleaver where the point is almost a straight line from the start of the handle (ie both the handle and blade curve.)

Stepping outside of the technical definition, as an uncommon, it probably shouldn’t rival the power level of the Enchanter’s Whetstone. The Whetstone is +1/+1 but only for rare weapons. The cleaver applies to dozens of weapons already. As soon as we expand beyond “axe” - you can make a good argument for a Halberd type of axe or even a gladius or other short swords where the blade is large.

This seems pretty reasonable.


Gib Gub’s Handy Acorn is a Shuriken. How do we get that an Axe like weapon is not an axe but an acorn is a shuriken?

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