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TOPIC: Guidance on how to help my friends builds.

Guidance on how to help my friends builds. 1 year 9 months ago #1

Hi all, this year I got my friends to try true dungeon for the first time and they really loved it and want to keep playing but cost is an issue for them. I know many people here kit out their friends and family so they can just put the money into playing the game rather the token part. I want to do the same for my friends as my build is fine where it is where I can do NM so I don't mind putting in the money so they can just focus on playing the game and we can push for hardcore at the very least next year. My question is what would be the best way to do this? There's one path where I just try to get the treasure enhancers for them but there's also a limited time to get certain items that seem really important to builds for example the ring of quick blessings/sacred necklace. These are the classes my friends intend to play:
Paladin
Cleric
Bard
Barbarian
Any guidance on particular soon to be out of print tokens for these classes would be really helpful or if you have kitted out your friends and family and went a different route please let me know.

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Guidance on how to help my friends builds. 1 year 9 months ago #2

For around 5 years I’ve run a treasure pool. I have 5 sets of TEs (another party member has the other 5 sets) and we filter out the best rares from treasure and keep the completion tokens . Anyone in the treasure pool that wants a full rare build from the pool can have one.

Then we transmute the remaining treasure and take turns building legendary stuff for group members.

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Guidance on how to help my friends builds. 1 year 9 months ago #3

Did you try to play catch up at all for current in print tokens or did you just solely use the rare tokens from the pool?

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Guidance on how to help my friends builds. 1 year 9 months ago #4

Just because something is OOP or some legendary is old doesn't mean it's going to get any more expensive. New stuff that's better will depress old stuff.

Hardcore is not that hard [um]. Even if think ultrarares are important, there are URs that have not held value that could pick up. The other thing can do is just play with others who can lend things like Lute of Free Fury or whatever that changes how a class plays.

As for what I did, I accumulated stuff to outfit three-ish players. The difficult stuff were tokens that go into any build, primarily back slot where get a lot of saves from. Class specific stuff and attributes were fairly easy as the melee build, missile build, and spellcaster build had fairly low overlap in attributes. If they are willing to pay for tickets, then you can just focus not on what is best but what covers a specific problem for a build for your group. Ring of Iron Will might be far more important than an ultrarare, for instance.

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Guidance on how to help my friends builds. 1 year 9 months ago #5

andy,

first off, it was great running with you at GC. thank you for joining us. it was a blast. :)

you might want to check out the "Guild Houses" threads. most, if not all, have a best in slot sub-thread. i do seem to recall a few of them had alternates that seemed more $$ friendly.

hope it helps.
Founder of Tokenholics Anonymous.
TD Patron since 2005.
Completed 24 runs at GC 2017 and 21 at GC 2022.
Proud Member of Team Legacy.

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Last edit: by smakdown.

Guidance on how to help my friends builds. 1 year 9 months ago #6

Are you aiming for nightmare or just hardcore? If hardcore then you really shouldn't need much expensive stuff (mostly rares plus 1-2 UR+ at most?), but here's what I would consider if looking to move up:

slot expanders/exchangers for everyone! get these at good prices while you can, if you still can. Arcane Earcuff, Charm Bracelets or Greater Charm Bracelets, Charm of Glory, Charm of Brooching

Cleric's MVP token is tokendb.com/token/lenses-of-divine-sight/ , especially if you all coordinate to wear tokendb.com/token/linked-shirt-of-healing/ (and maybe some tokendb.com/token/pants-of-blisswalk/ and/or the new tokendb.com/token/triton-ring/ ) because receive-side bonuses apply to both halves of a divided spell. LoDS is a couple years OOP again already, but you might still be able to find somebody on the forums with a reasonably-priced extra? Other thoughts for Cleric:
- Lv5
- tokendb.com/token/charm-of-spell-storing/
- tokendb.com/token/ioun-stone-fluorite-sphere/ is great for LoDS healers and very low-priced because non-healers don't care about it
- tokendb.com/token/charm-of-spell-swapping/ (also OOP, and how much use you get out of it depends on whether you need Prayer/Bless as such, but if nothing else being able to sacrifice Spiritual Hammer and Searing Light for extra heal spells is always worth the slot to me)
- yes, tokendb.com/token/sacred-necklace/ is 100% fantastic if looking to progress to NM or Epic. If staying at hardcore, consider trading for somebody's super cheap extra tokendb.com/token/necklace-of-the-zephyr/ next year, because it's really not a good token for most other use cases but it does let you cast Prayer as a free action.

Bard: Lv5, tokendb.com/token/lute-of-free-fury/ (the only relic I run even on Normal difficulty!), and tokendb.com/token/necklace-of-the-songbird/
dmrzzz's trade thread

Yes, my AC is lower than the Wizard's. No regrets!

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Guidance on how to help my friends builds. 1 year 9 months ago #7

Ok - a longer answer, specific to group building.

My group ran generally rare builds until 2020, and you can get some perspective on my group from the link in my signature. I’ve updated some of the threads with current builds, but others are still the old 2019(ish) build.

The first thing we did was coordinate tokens and let the Bard and the Cleric be the linchpin for the group. A 5th level bard with the lute of free fury (relic instrument) and necklace of the song bird (rare) can add +3 hit, +3 damage, and +1 all saves to the group. The Cleric can further boost this by casting prayer (+2 hit) and bless (+1 hit) bringing the total buff to the party to +6 hit and +3 damage.

For hardcore, you’ll want a modified +hit around +12 sliding, meaning with all the buffs in place, you’ll only need to get +6 in the builds for the other characters. Get everyone a rare +1 weapon, an enchanters whetstone, and a belt of the brave and you’re basically at the target. Fleshing out the rest of the builds with treasure or some select uncommons and rares is fine for hardcore.

With your offense covered mostly by buffs from the Bard and Cleric, durability is next. Shoot for 40hp and +12 to saves. Saves wise, look to: +2 cloak of resistance, (reprinted next year), ioun stone Beryl Prism, beads (Dire Bear, Stag), and Earcuff of enlightenment. Each class is a little different, but those give you a solid core to saves.

David Zych listed my favorite Healing tokens. Linked shirt of Healing, the new triton ring, pants of blisswalk, and IS agate orb dramatically improved the Healing capability of your Cleric, and make your 5th level bard the ultimate Healing rockstar. Soothe Wounds heals 3 points of damage base - add 3 for linked shirt, 3 for triton ring, 2 for blisswalk, and 1 for agate orb and it now heals 12(!). As long as your friends have enough hp not to get one shot, your bard can top off the whole group while the Cleric can address those that individually to damage. Note that the bard gets 2 casts of soothe wounds. That doesn’t seem like much at first, but then the Cleric can restore spell, the bard can use a charm of spell storing, both the Cleric and the bard can use a crown of Expertise, and next thing you know Soothe Wounds gets cast 6+ times in a run.

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Guidance on how to help my friends builds. 1 year 9 months ago #8

Andy,

Always consider the best treasure enhancers you can justify. After that for UR level Lenses of Divine Sight and Amulet of Guarding. If UR+ isn't in the budget I have listed some of the best inexpensive tokens I would recommend for your party:

Paladin
Mainhand: +1 Blood Mace
Armor: Defender Set
Eye: Lenses of Heimdal Sight
Ear: Earcuff of the Shanty
Neck: Amulet of Vigor (if not Guarding)
Hands: Gauntlets of Ogre Power
Waist: Belt of Ogre Power

Cleric
Focus based items
Mainhand: Baton of Focus
Armor: Defender Set (Crown of Focus if can't go Defender)
Eye: Lenses of Focus
Ear: Earcuff of the Shanty
Neck: Medallion of Focus
Hands: Gloves of Focus
Waist: Belt of Ogre Power
Bard (suggest ranged so DEX based)
Mainhand: +1 Fae Blowgun Flute (Bardsong and can attack)
Neck: Necklace of the Songbird (Free action lore and +1 saves)
Dex based items of your choice (use tokendb.com to filter by rare and dex bonus)

Barbarian
Eye: Lenses of Heimdal Sight
Ear: Earcuff of the Shanty
Neck: Amulet of Vigor (or Smashing for more dmg)
Hands: Gauntlets of Ogre Power
Waist: Belt of Ogre Power
Ring: Ring of Dark Health

All characters should have at least a Rare treasure enhancing token (there are many choices) and a Charm of Treasure Finding (unless you are equipping better as a group). If budget permits all characters could get an Enchanter's Whetstone.

Another good option is to have all new characters use a Linked Shirt of Healing - really helps the heals for new players.

Hope this helps.

Ed
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Guidance on how to help my friends builds. 1 year 9 months ago #9

Hi, Andy,

Seems like you're in pretty good hands with the above suggestions. I do want to echo a couple things people said above:
- Rare weapon + Enchanter's Whetstone = equivalent of basic +2 weapons for the entire group
- 5th level Bard + Lute of Free Fury = everyone in the party gets +3 To Hit / +3 Damage
- Combined, it's the "equivalent" to everyone having +5 weapons for much lower cost (and of course it stacks with upgraded weapons if the group gets in deeper!)
- Linked Shirt of Healing works with the Bard's Soothe Wounds spell, turning it into 6 points of healing for the entire party (except the Bard) with just one token
- Endgame showed above how insane that can get when you restore spell and add in *more* heal boosts
- Belt of the Brave is such a good value token at the moment it's not even funny. Slap that thing on your melee attackers while the price is still low (~$10/ea)

Hope your friends enjoy!

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Guidance on how to help my friends builds. 1 year 9 months ago #10

Oh, one last thing: Watch the forums over the next few days/weeks for Lazlo to run one of his token sales. You may get a good deal there on a Lute of Free Fury. The last price I have for it was an eBay sale back in May for under $200, so use that as a general guide (may be a bit more expensive, but you don't have to deal with eBay and bidding).

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Last edit: by Marc D.

Guidance on how to help my friends builds. 1 year 9 months ago #11

MasterED wrote: Andy,

Always consider the best treasure enhancers you can justify. After that for UR level Lenses of Divine Sight and Amulet of Guarding. If UR+ isn't in the budget I have listed some of the best inexpensive tokens I would recommend for your party:

Paladin
Mainhand: +1 Blood Mace
Armor: Defender Set
Eye: Lenses of Heimdal Sight
Ear: Earcuff of the Shanty
Neck: Amulet of Vigor (if not Guarding)
Hands: Gauntlets of Ogre Power
Waist: Belt of Ogre Power

Cleric
Focus based items
Mainhand: Baton of Focus
Armor: Defender Set (Crown of Focus if can't go Defender)
Eye: Lenses of Focus
Ear: Earcuff of the Shanty
Neck: Medallion of Focus
Hands: Gloves of Focus
Waist: Belt of Ogre Power
Bard (suggest ranged so DEX based)
Mainhand: +1 Fae Blowgun Flute (Bardsong and can attack)
Neck: Necklace of the Songbird (Free action lore and +1 saves)
Dex based items of your choice (use tokendb.com to filter by rare and dex bonus)

Barbarian
Eye: Lenses of Heimdal Sight
Ear: Earcuff of the Shanty
Neck: Amulet of Vigor (or Smashing for more dmg)
Hands: Gauntlets of Ogre Power
Waist: Belt of Ogre Power
Ring: Ring of Dark Health

All characters should have at least a Rare treasure enhancing token (there are many choices) and a Charm of Treasure Finding (unless you are equipping better as a group). If budget permits all characters could get an Enchanter's Whetstone.

Another good option is to have all new characters use a Linked Shirt of Healing - really helps the heals for new players.

Hope this helps.

Ed


Ed's suggestions are really good. I'd add a bit to help supplement these (this list focuses on budget items to get you into hardcore pretty easily):
(slotless) Enchanter's whetstone - stupidly good token. Gives +1/+1 to any rare weapon - making better rare weapons equal to (or better) than most UR weapons. ($25-$40)
(slotless) Tankard of Celebration - roll a 20 on initiative and heal hp's - fairly inexpensive item ($2-$5)
(shirt) Shirt of the Elder - +3 to Will saves - fairly inexpensive item ($2-$5) - you can, arguably, use this right up to nightmare difficulty
(waist) Belt of the Brave - +2 to hit and +2 damage - this is better than most UR waist slots and about equal to the 5 point relic Belt of Frost Giant Strength. It was a completion token last year. (~$10). This has long term use with the ghost shogs allowing you to equip a rare waist slot - I use this with epic builds. Prices will go up on this in the near future as we get further from when it was available as a completion token.
(Ioun Stone) Ioun Stone Jasper Elipsoid - +2 melee damage - again, equal to many UR's and is present in most epic melee builds. (~$15-$20). Prices will go up on this in the near future as we get further from when it was available as a completion token.
(bead) Bead of Chugging +3 to fort saves
(ear) Rum Drinker's Earcuff +1 con - runs about $2
(ear) Earcuff of Minor Orbits +1 Ioun Stone (~$5-$10)
(charm) charm of treasure boosting +1 treasure on top of 1 other TE booster (~$30-$40)
(feet) Sandles of humble reward +1 treasure (~$2) or (back) Cloak of many pockets +1 treasure (~2$)

(for bard)
(eyes) Lenses of the Owl +1 range to hit and +1 will saves - runs about $1
(charms) Charm of the Wind, Charm of Targeting +2 damage each - wind about $5, Targeting about $10-$15
(waist) Belt of the Sweetwoods +2 dex, +1 con - runs about $2
(wrist) Bracelets of Frail Agility - +3 dex, -1 str - runs about $2
(hands) Blessed Tempest Gloves +3 ranged and spell damage - runs $25-$30 or gloves of focus +1 to spell healing and damage (~$2)
(mainhand) +1 blowgun flute - allows for attack and bardsong at the same time - runs about $2
(Neck) Amulet of the Songbird - free action lore check +1 to party saves - runs about $2
(for barbarian)
(neck) amulet of smashing +4 damage w/ 2 handed weapons - runs about $2
(mainhand) +1 greater scimitar (6.6 avg dmg) or +1 Nether Dire Flail (6.7 avg dmg) - $1-$2 each
(for cleric)
(neck) medallion of inner faith - heal all allies 4 hp 1/game - runs about $2
(for paladin)
(neck) Pendant of the Pure - DR 2 on guard and may pick 1 extra ally to guard 1/game - runs about $2

- the 2021 rare class neck items were amazing - I recommend collecting a set of all of them as they are pretty potent.

There are a number of inexpensive items that are worth well more than they are selling for that you might consider in the builds:
(1 handed weapon) +1 turkey leg of smiting - good weapon with and expanded crit range - very good paladin or fighter weapon - goes for $25
(legs)Lucky Kilt - +3 to saves running $50-$75
(2 handed weapon) (for Barbarian) +1 death flail - decent damage wheel and does X3 damage on a nat 20. Because Barb does so much damage, that X3 is amazing to see (note: fury doesn't count as a nat 20 so you'd need to actually roll or slide a natural 20 to get the effect.) These sell for $50-$75.
(back) Cloak of Blending - great item for bard or cleric - opponents can't attack you by sight unless you attack them. This lets the bard or cleric buff the party for a bit before entering melee. Normally runs $50-$75.

-When you look at spending more than about $75 - then your options open up a bit more. Priority items for higher end builds:
#1 - an item that boosts your level. Cook's hat is a great choice since it takes away a couple ioun stone slots that you can get back with other items (and, with early builds, you rarely have enough good ioun stones to fill those slots anyway). It runs about $100-$120. Rings of heroism are a bit cheaper right now than normal - running $190-$220 (normally about $250). Those are great but ring slots are tough to give up.
-The plus to level boosting items is they always seem to have resale value at or above what you paid for them. Eventually, you'll upgrade to a set granting a level or a totem or a pair of eldritch items but you can recover your investment in the initial level boost item.
- For your bard, the deadshot set is a GREAT way to get +1 level. For $225 you can get all three items which would grant +1 level, +8 to hit ranged, and +3 damage ranged (gloves, belt, and goggles.) Quite a few nightmare builds use that set and do very well. Ranged attack bonuses aren't easy to get beyond raising Dex so +8 from these slots is pretty big. The only downside is the waist slot could go to an Orion's belt for +1 charm and +2 ioun stones - that's not a huge loss overall.
#2 - treasure enhancers. Always pick up the current PYP available ones since you can get them for about $100. The platinum nugget is a current PYP and we'll have a bead next year as well. Gold nuggets are running about $170 and Silver seems to have spiked up to $300. A charm of avarice is difficult to justify right now at $2K+. Until you get your second UR TE, the charm of treasure boosting is nice to have as well (you could get 6 draws (Ioun stone for +2, Charm of Treasure Boosting +1, and standard +3 draws.)
#3 - You class Relic/legendary (Bard, Barbarian, Cleric)
Bard - The bard relic and legendary are amazingly good - even the relic allows the bard to do other things in addition to bard song and increases the power of bardsong. Relic is running $250-$300
Barbarian - The barbarian relic and legendary are, arguably, the most powerful class items (along with Monk and Bard). The relic gives +6 dmg, an extra rage/greater rage, and fury (auto-crit if you hit) 1/game. The legendary gets even better. The relic is for sale at Trent's right now for $240 (normally closer to $275-$300.)
Cleric - Relic is very good - extra restore plus full heal or raise dead for free, cast 2nd level spells as a free action. The legendary gets better expanding the free action casting and adding divine intervention. Typically runs about $300-$350.
--Paladin - the relic and legendary are a bit of a letdown. They are good but not really worth focusing on early in your builds. I'd rate the holy sword on the bottom of class relics/legendaries along with the druid necklace.
#4 - Other UR or higher items that make big differences in the builds: (PYP means pick your purple - running $75-$100)
all
Charm of Glory - extra ring slot ($175-$225)
Bard - Ring of Expertise - cast a 0 level or 1st level spell 1/room without marking it off (PYP)
Cranston's Helpful Hat - +2 range/spell damage and can equip and extra eye slot item (PYP)
Belt of Deadshot - +2 to hit and +3 dmg with ranged attacks (PYP)
Bead of Focus - +2 to spell healing or damage (PYP)
Cleric - Ring of Quick Blessing (PYP) - free action spell casting
Lenses of Divine Sight - +2 to healing spells and can split healing between 2 targets (~$125-$150)
Bead of Focus - +2 to spell healing or damage (PYP)
Barbarian - Charm of Quick Strike - if the party wins initiative with a roll of 15 or better, the barbarian gets a free attack before the round begins (~$200)

-While it is still eligible for transmuting - Charm of the Fire Newt - you'll see this in most epic builds (straight +2 melee damage). Do some VTD and/or GHC and you should be able to do the transmute yourself.

- Hope this helps!

Fred
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Guidance on how to help my friends builds. 1 year 9 months ago #12

Thank you everyone for the help! You all really helped get me going in the right direction. Endgame I was hoping you would respond to this haha I see how much work you put into setting up your party definitely inspired me. I will probably spend the money getting the relic bard lute and the relic cleric necklace which definitely make it easier overall for the party to do well. The items to help out healing seems great for a budget. getting everyone to level 5 seems like its gonna be the biggest initial sink hopefully I can find some rings on sale but otherwise I can just use folios for the time being.

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