TOPIC: Absolute MIN builds

On facebook, someone threw out this question, What is the most MIN build (worst) possible for each class?

Anyone tried it ? Would seem that a fighter with -STR tokens would be the worst. I assume that when you hit 0 for a stat you die...

Given that some classes can stack enough negative CON modifiers to start with negative HP, I'd say that its hard to be worse than dead.

dave romanin wrote: On facebook, someone threw out this question, What is the most MIN build (worst) possible for each class?

Anyone tried it ? Would seem that a fighter with -STR tokens would be the worst. I assume that when you hit 0 for a stat you die...

I wouldn't assume that, except for HP.

There are definitely elf wizards builds that can die in coaching from negative HP.

Isn't there a rule on the books that says you can't reduce any single state below a certain number?

I remember Druegar posting something to that effect.

Arnold wrote: Isn't there a rule on the books that says you can't reduce any single state below a certain number?

I remember Druegar posting something to that effect.

That is in the dungeon.

From the DMG
Cumulative Penalty Limitation
"Within the adventure, no single statistic can be reduced by more than 6 points. This limit applies to spells or effects that affect ability scores (STR, WIS, etc.), Saves, AC, Max HP, To Hit or Damage modifiers, etc. No matter how many temporary effects or spells have been used, no single stat/ability on a specific victim can be reduced more than 6 points. This rule applies to both player characters and monsters.

However, this does not apply to permanent items used by the character before beginning the adventure. If players equip various items that result in more than a 6-point penalty, they must endure the full penalty. Additional temporary penalties may be incurred in the adventure, up to 6 more points. E.g., if Grak the barbarian equipped the following items, Grak would suffer a –8 penalty to Reflex saving throws:
•HELM OF THE BOAR ( –4 Reflex)
•OAKSKIN MEDALLION (–1 to all saves)
•REDOUBT MAIL (–2 Reflex)
•WickED CHARM ( –1 to all saves)
Once inside the adventure, Grak could suffer additional Reflex penalties, up to a grand total of –14. Some item effects have stricter stacking limits or may not stack at all. Please see the individual token’s description in the Token Database for details.Reaching the 6-point cap on one stat does not prevent another from being reduced, even on the same victim.
This cap can sometimes negate a drawback. E.g., if Grak drank three Creeper Stout potions (heal 5 HP and suffer –2 AC) in a single room, Grak would heal 15 HP and suffer a –6 AC penalty. If Grak drank a fourth Creeper Stout, Grak would heal another 5 HP, but Grak’s AC would not decrease any further. The AC penalty stacks, but once cumulative penalty limit for AC is reached, any additional Creeper Stouts Grak consumes in that room would effectively be standard 5 HP heal potions."


Also I never noticed Wicked Charm was "WickED CHARM" Instead of all caps.

jedibcg banjo number 5 wrote:

Arnold wrote: Isn't there a rule on the books that says you can't reduce any single state below a certain number?

I remember Druegar posting something to that effect.

That is in the dungeon.

From the DMG
Cumulative Penalty Limitation
"Within the adventure, no single statistic can be reduced by more than 6 points. This limit applies to spells or effects that affect ability scores (STR, WIS, etc.), Saves, AC, Max HP, To Hit or Damage modifiers, etc. No matter how many temporary effects or spells have been used, no single stat/ability on a specific victim can be reduced more than 6 points. This rule applies to both player characters and monsters.

However, this does not apply to permanent items used by the character before beginning the adventure. If players equip various items that result in more than a 6-point penalty, they must endure the full penalty. Additional temporary penalties may be incurred in the adventure, up to 6 more points. E.g., if Grak the barbarian equipped the following items, Grak would suffer a –8 penalty to Reflex saving throws:
•HELM OF THE BOAR ( –4 Reflex)
•OAKSKIN MEDALLION (–1 to all saves)
•REDOUBT MAIL (–2 Reflex)
•WickED CHARM ( –1 to all saves)
Once inside the adventure, Grak could suffer additional Reflex penalties, up to a grand total of –14. Some item effects have stricter stacking limits or may not stack at all. Please see the individual token’s description in the Token Database for details.Reaching the 6-point cap on one stat does not prevent another from being reduced, even on the same victim.
This cap can sometimes negate a drawback. E.g., if Grak drank three Creeper Stout potions (heal 5 HP and suffer –2 AC) in a single room, Grak would heal 15 HP and suffer a –6 AC penalty. If Grak drank a fourth Creeper Stout, Grak would heal another 5 HP, but Grak’s AC would not decrease any further. The AC penalty stacks, but once cumulative penalty limit for AC is reached, any additional Creeper Stouts Grak consumes in that room would effectively be standard 5 HP heal potions."


Also I never noticed Wicked Charm was "WickED CHARM" Instead of all caps.

Thanks for the clarification.

A Monk with no tokens on Epic.

dave romanin wrote: Anyone tried it ? Would seem that a fighter with -STR tokens would be the worst. I assume that when you hit 0 for a stat you die...

I can get as far as -11 STR with tokens on the Character Generator, which is only enough to reduce the FIghter's strength to 4, which is a -3 modifier, so they still deal 1 damage with a max roll on d4 weapons (including Mighty Sling for ranged).

Rangers start with 2 less strength, so they can go down to 0 melee damage...but they get +2 damage with slings, so the Mighty Sling goes from 0 damage to 2.

Harlax wrote: Given that some classes can stack enough negative CON modifiers to start with negative HP, I'd say that its hard to be worse than dead.

It's currently only possible for the elf. The 2021 set will make it possible for bard, rogue and wizard as well. Cleric too, I suppose if the cleric doesn't use an app for the +1 HP.