TOPIC: Validating Playable Best in Slot builds for damage potential

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Added a Rogue, have no idea on the class. Think the design is solid?

Assuming all crit strikes are running off the necklace/eyes/crossbow combo. Correct?

Check Fred’s sig for his Ranged build. I think melee May do slightly more, but not certain

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Good point. I still think the saves are worth the 1 hit to 1 damage trade though.

Not for a best in slot damage build. As stated in the design theory I will always be taking +damage or +hit over saves.

I did update the Ranger to use Thor's instead of Asher's due to the Crit Range but chose to keep Io's also due to the crit range. Doubled crit range is worth more than ~7 damage IMO

Our Barbarian bought a +1 falchion of life stealing at the start of the 2017 season. He tracked his crits because he wanted to see how much life he gained, and if he could change his build from the extra healing. He did one run of each adventure at gen con and game hole con each year. By the end of the 2019, he had done 3 crits... and decided to switch to a +1 heavy claymore with whetstone for the extra damage.

Crits are so unreliable between monsters that are immune to them and just not sliding a 20 i wouldn’t build for them, even when they trigger on a 19-20. Let’s say that the extension of the crit Range doubled by adding the 19. 3 extra crits wouldn’t cover the damage difference of +7 damage on every attack.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Good point. I still think the saves are worth the 1 hit to 1 damage trade though.

Not for a best in slot damage build. As stated in the design theory I will always be taking +damage or +hit over saves.

I did update the Ranger to use Thor's instead of Asher's due to the Crit Range but chose to keep Io's also due to the crit range. Doubled crit range is worth more than ~7 damage IMO

Fair enough. Re: endgame's argument about crit immunity, the build includes bracers of guided strike to address that.

Endgame wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Good point. I still think the saves are worth the 1 hit to 1 damage trade though.

Not for a best in slot damage build. As stated in the design theory I will always be taking +damage or +hit over saves.

I did update the Ranger to use Thor's instead of Asher's due to the Crit Range but chose to keep Io's also due to the crit range. Doubled crit range is worth more than ~7 damage IMO

Our Barbarian bought a +1 falchion of life stealing at the start of the 2017 season. He tracked his crits because he wanted to see how much life he gained, and if he could change his build from the extra healing. He did one run of each adventure at gen con and game hole con each year. By the end of the 2019, he had done 3 crits... and decided to switch to a +1 heavy claymore with whetstone for the extra damage.

Crits are so unreliable between monsters that are immune to them and just not sliding a 20 i wouldn’t build for them, even when they trigger on a 19-20. Let’s say that the extension of the crit Range doubled by adding the 19. 3 extra crits wouldn’t cover the damage difference of +7 damage on every attack.

The difference on a monster board between the 20, the 19-20 area and the 18-20 area are miles apart. It's signifigantly easier to hit 17 18 or 19 than it ever is to hit 20.

18-20 crit range is not anywhere near equal to 20 only or 19-20 on most combat boards.

YMMV of course

Daniel White wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Good point. I still think the saves are worth the 1 hit to 1 damage trade though.

Not for a best in slot damage build. As stated in the design theory I will always be taking +damage or +hit over saves.

I did update the Ranger to use Thor's instead of Asher's due to the Crit Range but chose to keep Io's also due to the crit range. Doubled crit range is worth more than ~7 damage IMO

Fair enough. Re: endgame's argument about crit immunity, the build includes bracers of guided strike to address that.

Didn't catch the guided strike bracers on the first pass - that certainly helps. I still think I would personally go with charm bracelets to pump up damage some more, but I've never really gone fishing for crits either. I'll try to keep it in mind the next time I'm sliding.

Endgame wrote:

Daniel White wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Good point. I still think the saves are worth the 1 hit to 1 damage trade though.

Not for a best in slot damage build. As stated in the design theory I will always be taking +damage or +hit over saves.

I did update the Ranger to use Thor's instead of Asher's due to the Crit Range but chose to keep Io's also due to the crit range. Doubled crit range is worth more than ~7 damage IMO

Fair enough. Re: endgame's argument about crit immunity, the build includes bracers of guided strike to address that.

Didn't catch the guided strike bracers on the first pass - that certainly helps. I still think I would personally go with charm bracelets to pump up damage some more, but I've never really gone fishing for crits either. I'll try to keep it in mind the next time I'm sliding.

what charms would you add to increase damage?

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Daniel White wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Good point. I still think the saves are worth the 1 hit to 1 damage trade though.

Not for a best in slot damage build. As stated in the design theory I will always be taking +damage or +hit over saves.

I did update the Ranger to use Thor's instead of Asher's due to the Crit Range but chose to keep Io's also due to the crit range. Doubled crit range is worth more than ~7 damage IMO

Fair enough. Re: endgame's argument about crit immunity, the build includes bracers of guided strike to address that.

Didn't catch the guided strike bracers on the first pass - that certainly helps. I still think I would personally go with charm bracelets to pump up damage some more, but I've never really gone fishing for crits either. I'll try to keep it in mind the next time I'm sliding.

what charms would you add to increase damage?

Glory for 3rd ring which is often Ring of the Drake or Ring of Frost
Draco-Lich for +2 to melee and ranged
Greater Onyx, Fiendish, Onyx, and Wicked for STR

Depending on how you like doing the analysis, Charm of Quick Strike probably belongs in all the builds that can equip it - 30% chance of an extra attack is huge (e.g. if an attack is worth 50 to 100 to you, this charm is worth 15-30 damage per room on average).

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Daniel White wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Good point. I still think the saves are worth the 1 hit to 1 damage trade though.

Not for a best in slot damage build. As stated in the design theory I will always be taking +damage or +hit over saves.

I did update the Ranger to use Thor's instead of Asher's due to the Crit Range but chose to keep Io's also due to the crit range. Doubled crit range is worth more than ~7 damage IMO

Fair enough. Re: endgame's argument about crit immunity, the build includes bracers of guided strike to address that.

Didn't catch the guided strike bracers on the first pass - that certainly helps. I still think I would personally go with charm bracelets to pump up damage some more, but I've never really gone fishing for crits either. I'll try to keep it in mind the next time I'm sliding.

what charms would you add to increase damage?

Glory for 3rd ring which is often Ring of the Drake or Ring of Frost
Draco-Lich for +2 to melee and ranged
Greater Onyx, Fiendish, Onyx, and Wicked for STR

Depending on how you like doing the analysis, Charm of Quick Strike probably belongs in all the builds that can equip it - 30% chance of an extra attack is huge (e.g. if an attack is worth 50 to 100 to you, this charm is worth 15-30 damage per room on average).

Ranger runs Quick Strike and Dracolich.

Rins Ring of the Drake without charm bracelets. Could drop Brooching for Glory and run Ring of Frost.

Giving up critical immunities for a 19-20 immunity build to gain +1 damage via Greater Onyx doesn't seem a good swap at this point.

Wizard Mystic Mouth neck plus Ioun Stone Flourite Cube. Increase your per round damage by 10-12 depending on which wizard you are (one gives +2 to wands)

Caleb Coey wrote: Wizard Mystic Mouth neck plus Ioun Stone Flourite Cube. Increase your per round damage by 10-12 depending on which wizard you are (one gives +2 to wands)

None of the existing builds include the use of consumable tokens so I am avoiding that on a design level for comparison.

Wizard replacing figurine: cat with figurine: bat would increase the percentage chance of getting damage on slide spells which effectively increases damage.

Caleb Coey wrote: Wizard replacing figurine: cat with figurine: bat would increase the percentage chance of getting damage on slide spells which effectively increases damage.

Only if there isn’t a bard or cleric in the party. A level 5 bard with relic lute, a cleric that casts prayer and bless, or some combination will push the wizards ranged attack to +14, which means pretty much auto hit static AC 15.

Edit - pointing out the FoP though, every build should at least consider FoP reaver. Any 2 FoP build could add FoP horror as well.