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TOPIC: Frostnut Function Question

Frostnut Function Question 1 week 4 days ago #1

The Frostnuts from 2017 (uncommon alchemical thrown ranged weapon) indicate they do cold damage to all monster in the room if a single monster is hit.

Alchemical weapons don't get additions for strength in their damage as the base damage is based on reactions rather than "the force by which they are thrown."

However, there doesn't appear to be any more limitations on Alchemical weapons beyond that they don't get strength bonuses in their damage. Frostnut appears to create an odd corner case since it does entire room effect damage.

Here is the primary question:
*How is damage calculated for the rest of the room?
For the initial target, it's pretty clear you would get normal ranged bonuses such as the ranger's +4, the bonuses from items like the Draco-Lich Charm that aren't specific to missiles, etc. but no strength bonus.
Would that damage extend to the secondary targets or would it just be the damage wheel?

Secondary questions:
*Would a critical result in increased damage for the rest of the room?
*Would items or characteristics that change crit threat range impact the crit range of that attack (rogue legendary necklace, etc.)?
*If that damage bonus did extend to secondary targets (i.e. the rest of the room due to the special feature of the frostnut), what about for unusual attacks like a sneak attack using lenses of vital insight? The PHB language would seem to exclude that possibility since it references attacking "a" creature. I would guess that other edge cases could happen as well that would increase damage.

I was curious about this when I was organizing some tokens and really only just noticed that Frostnuts did area effect damage.

Thoughts?

Fred
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Frostnut Function Question 1 week 3 days ago #2

Not official, but if I were guessing I’d base it on the only other crit-like doubling of an AoE attack: magic. Specifically, how Mad Evoker Charm would treat a Fireball.

So I’d say, rolling a hit would deal base damage to each target, then the bonus damage goes in a pool. On a crit, the pool gets base plus double bonus damage. Either way the player may allocate the pool damage between targets at will.

This is just speculation until an official ruling is made. It may have already been somewhere in the development threads, but my search-fu is on holiday.
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Last edit: by Brad Mortensen.

Frostnut Function Question 1 week 3 days ago #3

The total damage done to the primary target is also dealt to the secondary targets.

Standard resistances or vulnerabilities would apply though. E.g., the room as a Fire Elemental and an Ice Elemental. If your Frostnut attack against the Fire Elemental succeeds and the damage wheel points to 5, it does 10 damage to the Fire Elemental because it's vulnerable to Cold. But the Ice Elemental in the room takes 0 damage because it's resistant to Cold. If there were also a bunch of Earth Elementals in the room, they would all take 5 damage.
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Frostnut Function Question 1 week 3 days ago #4

If it helps, think of it this way: if you hit one monster, you hit ALL the monsters, with one shot, including any relevant bonuses or penalities.

Don't over complicate it. :)
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Frostnut Function Question 1 week 3 days ago #5

Wait, all bonuses? So the new ranger bonus of +9 along with draco-lich charm, etc would all apply? You could have +10 or more damage making the frostseed comparable to a fireball in the hands of a ranger (for non-rangers the max is likely +6-+9).

That begs the second question - a rogue sneak attack couldn’t be applied to everything in the room, could it?

Thanks for your clarification on this.

Fred
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Frostnut Function Question 1 week 3 days ago #6

Druegar wrote: If it helps, think of it this way: if you hit one monster, you hit ALL the monsters, with one shot, including any relevant bonuses or penalities.

Don't over complicate it. :)

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Frostnut Function Question 1 week 3 days ago #7

If you're losing your mind over how "broken" this token is, please consider all of the following:
  1. It may be an Uncommon, but it's also a consumable. So if it's going to deal obscene damage, it's only going to happen once.
  2. How many times have you seen a room with more than one monster in a standard adventure, let alone a room full of fire elementals? (We don't really balance things for Grind--that's its own feral, vicious, rabid animal. ;) )
  3. It requires you to hit the primary target with a slide.
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Frostnut Function Question 1 week 3 days ago #8

I agree it's an edge case. It's even more of an edge case because so many of us transmuted those into Elven Bismuth without giving a ton of thought on how it could be used.

I don't view it as being game breaking but it's definitely something I'll plan to use when playing a melee character and we run into a mob. It's a great option to fall back on if you don't have a caster able to do area effect when you encounter multiple creatures.

Turns out, it's useful to actually read all the tokens :)

Fred
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Frostnut Function Question 1 week 2 days ago #9

Fred K wrote: Turns out, it's useful to actually read all the tokens

And ask questions. :)
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Frostnut Function Question 1 week 2 days ago #10

This is awesome, the token, the thread, the fact that all of mine are now Elven Bismuth and Fred called it! Just amazing.
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Frostnut Function Question 1 week 2 days ago #11

macXdmg wrote: This is awesome, the token, the thread, the fact that all of mine are now Elven Bismuth and Fred called it! Just amazing.

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Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections/suggestions in this thread .
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Frostnut Function Question 1 week 2 days ago #12

Yeah - it’s sarcasm. I bet I mulched 30 of them. I bought out Trent’s stock.

Lesson learned for me - actually read the freaking tokens.

Fyi - there is a parallel item from 2009(?) that is the same but with fire.

Fred
What do we want? Evidence based science! When do we want it? After peer review!

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