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TOPIC: Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question

Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question 2 months 1 week ago #13

Druegar wrote: Matthew, if you can link to the exact posts (not the thread, the specific posts) where either Jeff or I made those statements, I'll take a look.

For those who may not know, the white "#X" in the upper right of each post links directly to that post. Right-clicking on the "#X" should give you the option to copy the link.


Ill try’s to do that tonight.

But really:

1. We have rules for “may attack melee at range.”

2. We have rules for “thrown weapons” and “returning weapons.”

Can you explain why the wording on Benrows was changed from “May attack melee at range” to “May be thrown and gains returning” if the intent was not that Benrows effect would be governed by the thrown weapons rules?

Or why the “attack melee at range” rules would apply to a token that specifically says it grants “thrown and returning”?

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question 2 months 1 week ago #14

Gloves of the Flying Fists has been using this "melee for ranged" mechanic since 2014.
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections/suggestions in this thread .
If I write something in teal, it should not be taken seriously.

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Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question 2 months 1 week ago #15

My interpretation is there is two mechanics in play here:

"melee for ranged"
and
"thrown weapons"

"melee for ranged" has only been used for Gloves of the Flying Fist (I think, please correct me if I'm wrong), with the official token wording being "May hit ranged targets with Flurry of Blows". Thus, this uses the melee to-hit and melee damage modifiers.

"thrown weapons" has been used a number of times, with a common example of Thor's Returning Hammer. In this, the ranged to-hit and the ranged damage (with strength bonuses) are used.

Now, up for debate. Where does this new monk Legendary, Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace, fall? Well, as the token reads, melee weapons that are flurry of blows compatible "may be thrown". Which, in my opinion, puts this necklace squarely in the "thrown weapons" category.

Am I missing some subtly?

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Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question 2 months 1 week ago #16

Druegar wrote: Gloves of the Flying Fists has been using this "melee for ranged" mechanic since 2014.


This statement makes me wonder if we're talking past one another.

Do you believe that there are:

A. Rules for thrown weapons, and more particularly for returning thrown weapons.

Examples here include Thor's (Compound ranged thrown+returning), +1 Thrall Faerie-Iron Skull (Ranged Thrown), and Dagger (Compound, ranged thrown)

B. Rules for the 'melee at ranged' effect as granted by GoFF, and in some situations Potion of Leaping Attack and Gnomish Fizzy Lifting Pack.

And that the rules for A and B differ from one another in details like what statistic is used for to-hit and to-damage calculation (among other things)?

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question 2 months 1 week ago #17

yes
yes
Benrow's uses B
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections/suggestions in this thread .
If I write something in teal, it should not be taken seriously.

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Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question 2 months 1 week ago #18

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Druegar wrote: yes
yes
Benrow's uses B


If it uses B (GoFF ruling) then why

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=615&id=250061#348241

"Trans Monk's Relic & Legendary - We took out the Gloves of Glory power (many thought it was not good enough to include as is) and we added some new abilities that should work better...and the Legendary should be fun for fans of 70's Chinese martial art films. We took out the granting of PT-5 Psychic Power since most Legendary Monks will have a higher level anyway in a few short years."

Jeff says Gloves of Glory but means Gloves of Flying Fist. I cannot find in the then next Final announcement anything about putting GoFF back on it which is here:
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=5&id=250078&start=0#348827

Is this what you were looking for?
You either discover a star or you don't. You arrogant punk.

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Last edit: by jedibcg.

Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question 2 months 1 week ago #19

Druegar wrote: yes
yes
Benrow's uses B


Great.

Please explain:

1. why the text on Benrows was changed during design from:

“May hit ranged target with FoB”

To its final version:

“All FoB weapons may be thrown and gain returning.”


You seem to be saying Benrows allows melee weapons to be thrown, but that they don’t become thrown weapons and/or are not governed by the rules for thrown weapons.

I think having a token that says: “does x,” where x is a keyword ability with Both a rules entry and a tokendb taxonomy, be ruled that it does not do x, but instead does related thing y should be avoided at all costs.

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Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.

Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question 2 months 1 week ago #20

I appreciate this discussion because I'd like to know a final ruling on this but...man does my head hurt. This is much too complicated.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Albert Einstein

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Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question 2 months 1 week ago #21

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Druegar wrote: yes
yes
Benrow's uses B


Great.

Please explain:

1. why the text on Benrows was changed during design from:

“May hit ranged target with FoB”

To its final version:

“All FoB weapons may be thrown and gain returning.”


You seem to be saying Benrows allows melee weapons to be thrown, but that they don’t become thrown weapons and/or are not governed by the rules for thrown weapons.

I think having a token that says: “does x,” where x is a keyword ability with Both a rules entry and a tokendb taxonomy, be ruled that it does not do x, but instead does related thing y should be avoided at all costs.


Do we have a list of keyword abilities? I'm trying to follow this discussion, and did not know keywords were a thing.

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Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question 2 months 1 week ago #22

Oh yeah, my preorder iounstone is 100% in question with this thread.
--
macXdmg
Monk of the Painda Order

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Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question 2 months 1 week ago #23

And (initially assuming thrown FoB weapons would use range to hit and range damage) I was considering getting a ring of the drake to wear to boost my ranged damage when throwing weapons.
Playing True Dungeon since 2012.

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Last edit: by Philip Goodman.

Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace question 2 months 1 week ago #24

Philip Goodman wrote: And (initially assuming thrown FoB weapons would use range to hit and range damage) I was considering getting a ring of the drake to wear to boost my ranged damage when throwing weapons.


Ha, I assumed that wouldn’t be allowed because of a message in the dev cycle about barbarians and their development.
--
macXdmg
Monk of the Painda Order

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