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TOPIC: Shaman's Necklace Question

Shaman's Necklace Question 2 years 7 months ago #13

In that case, you’re right. It’s a way to look at it.

But I hope that’s not how it works.
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Last edit: by Brad Mortensen.

Shaman's Necklace Question 2 years 7 months ago #14

Fiddy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Bhorg wrote: Here is the Tokendb entry for Shaman's Greater Necklace .

Here is the Tokendb entry for Shield of the Scholar .

If the transformation both ways is instantaneous, one could enter round 2 of combat as a fire elemental, instantly transform into a human again, cast a spell, then instantly transform back into a fire elemental. I think that is the INTENT of the item. I could be wrong, but that is how it reads to me. Similarly, if equipped with the Shield of the Scholar, one could transform back into human, cast a spell, use the shield as a free action, then transform back into a fire elemental.


I agree. You could also attack as the Fire Elemental, transform to human, use the Shield as a Free Action (or take any other Free Action), and transform back to the Fire Elemental.


I recall when instantaneous actions were brought up that several people advocated for a limit of 1 per round. As far as I can see, that suggestion was never implemented in the PHB. So, yeah, as the rules currently stand I think you are correct. Though it seems quite cheesy to me (my opinion).


I agree that it feels cheesy. I won't be doing it personally.

Odds of a random DM understanding the rules well enough to accept that you're going Instantaneous Action - Free Action - Instantaneous Action - Normal Action ? I wouldn't count on it.
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Shaman's Necklace Question 2 years 7 months ago #15

TD did add the rule that you could only polymorph to one type of creature per room, to prevent you from attacking in one form and then switching to a different form for defense.

That actually seems like overkill to me. It probably would have been good enough to restrict you to one type of creature per round. That would have stopped the problem of attacking in one form and defending in another.

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Shaman's Necklace Question 2 years 7 months ago #16

Mike Steele wrote: TD did add the rule that you could only polymorph to one type of creature per room, to prevent you from attacking in one form and then switching to a different form for defense.

That actually seems like overkill to me. It probably would have been good enough to restrict you to one type of creature per round. That would have stopped the problem of attacking in one form and defending in another.


I agree, with one caveat: also make the necklace polymorph abilities 1/room.

Why? This would close the elemental resistance abuse where you unpoly to human, cast/use item, re-poly into same elemental for resistance. But it now allows you to try switching up which creature is best for the combat. In fact, i could see legendary necklace players start with some random potion creature, then switch in round 2 to whichever elemental is best suited to the combat (or maybe spider or gremlin).

I think this would be good to change because the current rule places a limitation that i dont agree with/dont understand the purpose (no more than one poly type/room) AND it doesnt fix the issue that i think should be addressed (the unpoly-cast/item-repoly). That issue wasnt a big problem before the necklace due to the additional cost and needing free action potions for each round.

And just acknowledge: yes, the use item loophole will still exist for the legendary necklace if you use potions. The elemental poly will be limit 1/room, so if you unpoly you are done with elemental for the room. And since you can cast while poly anyway, all you gain is item use at the cost of elemental poly/resistance. For a legendary, that seems fine to me.
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Shaman's Necklace Question 2 years 7 months ago #17

I'm fine with the instantaneous rule as it is, I don't think it needs to be changed from how polymorph has always worked. I think changing the new rule to one type of polymorph per turn instead of room would be good, it would still fix the issue of attacking and defending in different forms.

This is probably one of those topics that won't reach consensus. :)

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Shaman's Necklace Question 2 years 7 months ago #18

This definitely sounds like room DMs will be confused about. It is more complicated than prior rules.

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Shaman's Necklace Question 2 years 7 months ago #19

Fred K wrote: This definitely sounds like room DMs will be confused about. It is more complicated than prior rules.

Fred


Well, the instantaneous polymorph is the old rules, they weren't changed. The limit of one form per room is new.

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Shaman's Necklace Question 2 years 7 months ago #20

“One may not polymorph into more than one creature (nor into different elemental types) per room, but transforming into and out of the same creature more than once per room is allowed–assuming one has the means to do so.“

When choosing any polymorph form, you are locked into that form for the whole room.
So you cannot start as human, poly into elemental for attack, then human again and bonus action potion (or legendary) into gremlin. That is already disallowed.

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Shaman's Necklace Question 2 years 7 months ago #21

Bhorg wrote: “One may not polymorph into more than one creature (nor into different elemental types) per room, but transforming into and out of the same creature more than once per room is allowed–assuming one has the means to do so.“

When choosing any polymorph form, you are locked into that form for the whole room.
So you cannot start as human, poly into elemental for attack, then human again and bonus action potion (or legendary) into gremlin. That is already disallowed.


True, although I think the locked in for the room part is a new ruling this year.

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Shaman's Necklace Question 2 years 7 months ago #22

Mike Steele wrote:

Bhorg wrote: “One may not polymorph into more than one creature (nor into different elemental types) per room, but transforming into and out of the same creature more than once per room is allowed–assuming one has the means to do so.“

When choosing any polymorph form, you are locked into that form for the whole room.
So you cannot start as human, poly into elemental for attack, then human again and bonus action potion (or legendary) into gremlin. That is already disallowed.


True, although I think the locked in for the room part is a new ruling this year.


I can confirm that the following paragraph was not in last year's PHB (updated 06/03/18):

If the player chooses to revert into their original form
before the end of the room, they would need to use
another identical polymorph potion or magic item to
change again. No character may polymorph into
more than one creature type per room. Assuming the
player has the means to do so, they may transform
into and out of the same creature type more than once
per room.


It's possible that Jeff always meant for it to work this way, though. It's also possible that it was a ruling that had to be issued to prevent elemental sleaze.
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Do you have Onyx polymorph Potions?

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Shaman's Necklace Question 2 years 7 months ago #23

Bhorg wrote: “One may not polymorph into more than one creature (nor into different elemental types) per room, but transforming into and out of the same creature more than once per room is allowed–assuming one has the means to do so.“

When choosing any polymorph form, you are locked into that form for the whole room.
So you cannot start as human, poly into elemental for attack, then human again and bonus action potion (or legendary) into gremlin. That is already disallowed.


Yes, we realize it is disallowed and think it is a poor rule. And since it is only in documents that can be changed withoit token eratta, we are asking TPTB to consider some changes.
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Shaman's Necklace Question 2 years 7 months ago #24

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Bhorg wrote: “One may not polymorph into more than one creature (nor into different elemental types) per room, but transforming into and out of the same creature more than once per room is allowed–assuming one has the means to do so.“

When choosing any polymorph form, you are locked into that form for the whole room.
So you cannot start as human, poly into elemental for attack, then human again and bonus action potion (or legendary) into gremlin. That is already disallowed.


True, although I think the locked in for the room part is a new ruling this year.


I can confirm that the following paragraph was not in last year's PHB (updated 06/03/18):

If the player chooses to revert into their original form
before the end of the room, they would need to use
another identical polymorph potion or magic item to
change again. No character may polymorph into
more than one creature type per room. Assuming the
player has the means to do so, they may transform
into and out of the same creature type more than once
per room.


It's possible that Jeff always meant for it to work this way, though. It's also possible that it was a ruling that had to be issued to prevent elemental sleaze.


But it doesnt prevent the primary sleaze (that lets the polymorph druid de-poly, cast spells and use items, and just re-poly after). The only 'sleaze' being prevented by the rule is switching to a different non-elemental creature via a potion...and i dont understand why that was deemed to be a problem, and i suspect that that was not the purpose target of the rule. Hence, suggesting and alternative rule to address what i think is the bigger issue.
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