TOPIC: Idea for 2019 token set

Have we ever had any melee weapon that uses the ranged to hit bonus? Something like a "finesse weapon"

I realize this could be problematic for DMs. Just wanting to document an idea I had before I forgot it.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Have we ever had any melee weapon that uses the ranged to hit bonus? Something like a "finesse weapon"

I realize this could be problematic for DMs. Just wanting to document an idea I had before I forgot it.

I've suggested one for a few years as a way to waylay power creep and add to build options but it's not made it into the design. Maybe 2019 will be the year for it.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Have we ever had any melee weapon that uses the ranged to hit bonus? Something like a "finesse weapon"

I realize this could be problematic for DMs. Just wanting to document an idea I had before I forgot it.

So kinda the reverse of a “Mighty” weapon?

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Have we ever had any melee weapon that uses the ranged to hit bonus? Something like a "finesse weapon"

I realize this could be problematic for DMs. Just wanting to document an idea I had before I forgot it.

I've suggested one for a few years as a way to waylay power creep and add to build options but it's not made it into the design. Maybe 2019 will be the year for it.

My apologies for taking your idea and presenting it as my own.

Bob Chasan wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Have we ever had any melee weapon that uses the ranged to hit bonus? Something like a "finesse weapon"

I realize this could be problematic for DMs. Just wanting to document an idea I had before I forgot it.

So kinda the reverse of a “Mighty” weapon?

Not exactly, but sort of.
It would still be a melee weapon with strength adding to the damage bonus, but with Dex (or ranged to hit) being used to determine whether you hit in the first place or not.
Some token interactions would have to be thought through.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Have we ever had any melee weapon that uses the ranged to hit bonus? Something like a "finesse weapon"

I realize this could be problematic for DMs. Just wanting to document an idea I had before I forgot it.

So kinda the reverse of a “Mighty” weapon?

Not exactly, but sort of.
It would still be a melee weapon with strength adding to the damage bonus, but with Dex (or ranged to hit) being used to determine whether you hit in the first place or not.
Some token interactions would have to be thought through.

Sounds like a “returning thrown weapon?”

Kind of the reverse of monks’ Flying Fist - a ranged attack that counts as melee

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Have we ever had any melee weapon that uses the ranged to hit bonus? Something like a "finesse weapon"

I realize this could be problematic for DMs. Just wanting to document an idea I had before I forgot it.

So kinda the reverse of a “Mighty” weapon?

Not exactly, but sort of.
It would still be a melee weapon with strength adding to the damage bonus, but with Dex (or ranged to hit) being used to determine whether you hit in the first place or not.
Some token interactions would have to be thought through.

Sounds like a “returning thrown weapon?”

Kind of the reverse of monks’ Flying Fist - a ranged attack that counts as melee

Without getting to far off topic for this thread, the big argument against finesse weapons has always been that would be way to powerful.

Str and Dex items tend to block each other. So players have to choose a build direction. If Dex was allowed to sub in for Str and raise melee hit/damage by a weapon or some other item it would raise MeleeHit/Damage/AC/RangedHit/Reflex save. No choices really you'd just stack Dex for everything. Heck I might go as far as to say it would obsolete strength entirely for whatever class got access to it.

I was advocating for dex to hit. Str for damage.

So. If you really want to hit, stack dex, which will also help reflex and AC.
If you want to hit hard, stack str, but there is a higher chance of a miss.

Brad, that sounds like what I was going for.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I was advocating for dex to hit. Str for damage.

So. If you really want to hit, stack dex, which will also help reflex and AC.
If you want to hit hard, stack str, but there is a higher chance of a miss.

Brad, that sounds like what I was going for.

So maybe someone can help me understand, what would be the functional difference between that and say Dagger of Returning or Thor’s Hammer? Other than flavor, of course...

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I was advocating for dex to hit. Str for damage.

So. If you really want to hit, stack dex, which will also help reflex and AC.
If you want to hit hard, stack str, but there is a higher chance of a miss.

Brad, that sounds like what I was going for.

So maybe someone can help me understand, what would be the functional difference between that and say Dagger of Returning or Thor’s Hammer? Other than flavor, of course...

Besides being a melee weapon? It is rare but there has been at least once that I can think of that range weapons were not effective.

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I was advocating for dex to hit. Str for damage.

So. If you really want to hit, stack dex, which will also help reflex and AC.
If you want to hit hard, stack str, but there is a higher chance of a miss.

Brad, that sounds like what I was going for.

So maybe someone can help me understand, what would be the functional difference between that and say Dagger of Returning or Thor’s Hammer? Other than flavor, of course...

Besides being a melee weapon? It is rare but there has been at least once that I can think of that range weapons were not effective.

It’s like a finesse weapon.

So, in something like the high-wind room in Cogwind’s where ranged weapons weren’t allowed, this would still work, but in Moongate’s Hedge room, it wouldn’t. Okay, I’m getting it. For some reason it was twisting my brain

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Have we ever had any melee weapon that uses the ranged to hit bonus? Something like a "finesse weapon"

I realize this could be problematic for DMs. Just wanting to document an idea I had before I forgot it.

Yes, it's been brought up every year for the last 2-3 or so.

To fix the DM problem we'd probably just have to have a rule that if you equip a finesse weapon in the coaching room you may only use melee finesse weapons and vice versa.

I think it's a good idea, but one that needs to be handled cautiously to avoid accidentally causing a huge power creep.