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TOPIC: Insuring Tokens

Insuring Tokens 2 years 7 months ago #25

Ro-gan wrote:

Picc wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: I don't think they were suggesting that Jeff provide the insurance, rather that he prOvid appraisals, and if your own, separate insurance paid off, you could purchase your lost tokens from Jeff for the cost he appraised them for.

Or maybe I misunderstood.

no before people were suggesting(almost seemed like demanding) that he should


To be clear I was suggesting that Jeff could provide insurance (if he wanted to). I know its not his job to do it but it could be a source of revenue if he were to do it. The main barrier to being an insurance provider is the cost of paying out in the event of a claim, for Jeff that cost would be basically zero since he could just print new tokens to pay out policies.

For example someone someone fills out a form they find on the website and pays $100 per year or whatever to ensure their $10,000 worth of tokens for the year. Something happens to said tokens, the person fills out another form attaches a police/fire reports/evidence of the destroyed/missing tokens and sends it in along with a copy of their policy. Jeff then goes through the old transmute buckets/extras URs/prints off new tokens and sends those out. Transaction done.


Now all that said I'm not saying he's obligated, should, or would ever want to offer a service like this. Only that he is uniquely qualified to do so since he can just create a new COA/Legendary/etc where as a traditional insurance provider would need either buy replacement tokens on the secondary market or issue a cash settlement.


That's all well and good. But I see way too many ways to commit fraud.

Token holder sells Legendaries.
Token holder tells police Tokens were stolen.
Police take a quick report about Tokens stolen from Token holder's [whatever] at a game store or unlocked car.
Token holder gets copy of police report.
Token holder contacts Jeff and makes false claim.
Jeff sends new replacement Tokens.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.


Agreed. Jeff doesn't have the time to investigate loss reports.

My thought might work, and be an additional revenue source for Jeff if he were so inclined, but might still be more trouble than its worth.
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Insuring Tokens 2 years 7 months ago #26

Oops, didn't mean to send us down this rabbit hole.

I meant regular insurance or a rider, bad things happen, I get reimbursement, then it's on me to source replacement tokens.

Having Jeff replace them sets a dangerous precedent.

Thanks for your input, everyone!

-Joshua

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Insuring Tokens 2 years 7 months ago #27

I think Jeff *could* offer insurance (replacement) for high-value tokens as a way to make some extra money while supporting his bigger players.

I think it should only be done with tokens that have serial numbers. I still think Legendaries should have serial numbers like the RoSPs. This would make fraud around such an insurance program much more difficult.

Whether or not it is worth Jeff's time isn't up for me to decide :) The only reason I suggest it is that Jeff is uniquely situated to provide this type of assistance since he can replace tokens at minimal cost.
My online token shop: www.tdtavern.com (5% discount code: TDFORUM)

We buy, sell, and trade True Dungeon tokens. We also have a convenient consignment program where you can sell your own tokens.

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Last edit: by Kirk Bauer.

Insuring Tokens 2 years 7 months ago #28

Kirk Bauer wrote: I think Jeff *could* offer insurance (replacement) for high-value tokens as a way to make some extra money while supporting his bigger players.

I think it should only be done with tokens that have serial numbers. I still think Legendaries should have serial numbers like the RoSPs. This would make fraud around such an insurance program much more difficult.

Whether or not it is worth Jeff's time isn't up for me to decide :) The only reason I suggest it is that Jeff is uniquely situated to provide this type of assistance since he can replace tokens at minimal cost.


Jeff *could* also piss all over our tokens before he mails them...whether or not he does, probbaly depends on how much time he has...i would rather have him focus on dungeons and other things and not pissing on tokens or insurance issues
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Insuring Tokens 2 years 7 months ago #29

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: Jeff *could* also piss all over our tokens before he mails them...whether or not he does, probbaly depends on how much time he has...i would rather have him focus on dungeons and other things and not pissing on tokens or insurance issues


Difference is that he wouldn't exactly earn any money that way. Nor does it help support True Dungeon. Anything that protects the True Dungeon economy *and* makes him money (read: easier for him to keep doing this as his full-time job) is something I think he should consider.
My online token shop: www.tdtavern.com (5% discount code: TDFORUM)

We buy, sell, and trade True Dungeon tokens. We also have a convenient consignment program where you can sell your own tokens.

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Insuring Tokens 2 years 7 months ago #30

Kirk Bauer wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: Jeff *could* also piss all over our tokens before he mails them...whether or not he does, probbaly depends on how much time he has...i would rather have him focus on dungeons and other things and not pissing on tokens or insurance issues


Difference is that he wouldn't exactly earn any money that way. Nor does it help support True Dungeon. Anything that protects the True Dungeon economy *and* makes him money (read: easier for him to keep doing this as his full-time job) is something I think he should consider.


how the hell would it be easier

sifting through police reports...then keeping an eye on tokens sales(2ndary market ) to look for the stolen/fire burned ones

then say he finds some of those..now he has legal action to take..court dates etc...those would not make him more money..those would eat away at it..because he would have to prosecute people..or everyone would try it and then there is no money in it at all.
delpchad.blogspot.com/

First solo Nightmare survivor-2014 Viper pit

Allergic to Lori

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Insuring Tokens 2 years 7 months ago #31

This assumes the token(s) being 'insured" are numbered, e.g. like the RoSP. I'd think it would only be feasible for Eldritch Relics and Legendaries.

Let's say I have RoSP #100. I log in to my account on truedungeon.com and I register it, paying a small fee. Now let's say it is lost, stolen, or burned in a fire. I go online, report it as such, and pay a replacement fee, and Jeff sends me a new one. Meanwhile RoSP #100 goes on the lost/stolen/destroyed list that is publicly available on the truedungeon.com website.

Now if somebody shows up on eBay trying to sell RoSP #100, we can easily make sure it isn't on the lost/stolen/destroyed list. If it is, we don't buy it. We could even have a printout of the bad serial numbers posted in each coaching room and coaches could spot check if time permits.

No police reports, no legal action, etc. Nice and simple. The more secure players are that their tokens are safe, the more I think they will be wiling to spend, so that's another bonus. Also it would make counterfeiting much more difficult.
My online token shop: www.tdtavern.com (5% discount code: TDFORUM)

We buy, sell, and trade True Dungeon tokens. We also have a convenient consignment program where you can sell your own tokens.

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Insuring Tokens 2 years 7 months ago #32

Kirk Bauer wrote: This assumes the token(s) being 'insured" are numbered, e.g. like the RoSP. I'd think it would only be feasible for Eldritch Relics and Legendaries.

Let's say I have RoSP #100. I log in to my account on truedungeon.com and I register it, paying a small fee. Now let's say it is lost, stolen, or burned in a fire. I go online, report it as such, and pay a replacement fee, and Jeff sends me a new one. Meanwhile RoSP #100 goes on the lost/stolen/destroyed list that is publicly available on the truedungeon.com website.

Now if somebody shows up on eBay trying to sell RoSP #100, we can easily make sure it isn't on the lost/stolen/destroyed list. If it is, we don't buy it. We could even have a printout of the bad serial numbers posted in each coaching room and coaches could spot check if time permits.

No police reports, no legal action, etc. Nice and simple. The more secure players are that their tokens are safe, the more I think they will be wiling to spend, so that's another bonus. Also it would make counterfeiting much more difficult.

except for the poor person that bought it..now that person is out money...say the person or group (who is new) and knows nothing about the registry...then hey are going to be mad..since said token was "insured" by Jeff, now he is dragged into it..Jeff could then be sued by that person..so now he will have to have those reports etc...it is a headache that i would not want
delpchad.blogspot.com/

First solo Nightmare survivor-2014 Viper pit

Allergic to Lori

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Insuring Tokens 2 years 7 months ago #33

Valid points. Hopefully if somebody bought a $1k token they would do some research or at least they would know who they bought it from and could take recourse. Frankly the same thing could happen today with a counterfeit; Jeff could refuse to honor it and the person would have no recourse. This at least would provide an option for the buyer to verify the token first.

Again, it isn't up to you or me, just an idea that has some pros and cons.
My online token shop: www.tdtavern.com (5% discount code: TDFORUM)

We buy, sell, and trade True Dungeon tokens. We also have a convenient consignment program where you can sell your own tokens.

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Insuring Tokens 2 years 7 months ago #34

Joshua Baessler wrote: Oops, didn't mean to send us down this rabbit hole.

I meant regular insurance or a rider, bad things happen, I get reimbursement, then it's on me to source replacement tokens.

Having Jeff replace them sets a dangerous precedent.

Thanks for your input, everyone!

-Joshua


Back to the original topic, I wondered this as well. I appreciate the folks who have talked about how they included it in a rider. I am about to re-up my homeowners and plan to check into that. I just hope they don't require me to buy a big fire safe. :)

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Insuring Tokens 1 year 11 months ago #35

Ro-gan wrote: www.collectinsure.com

I've seen them at a few comic book conventions over the years. They specialize in collectors.


Rogan and others - has anyone actually worked with these guys before? And more importantly, ever filed a claim?

Alternatively, for the rider option on one's homeowners, does anyone have recommendations on an appraiser who understands TD tokens?
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Insuring Tokens 1 year 11 months ago #36

Tsaelyn wrote:

Ro-gan wrote: www.collectinsure.com

I've seen them at a few comic book conventions over the years. They specialize in collectors.


Rogan and others - has anyone actually worked with these guys before? And more importantly, ever filed a claim?

Alternatively, for the rider option on one's homeowners, does anyone have recommendations on an appraiser who understands TD tokens?


If you are doing a rider on your homeowners insurance, you usually don't need an appraiser.
Just photograph every token .. keep the photos not in the house .. and tell them you want to insure a collection for $X. They are going to insure you for that value (and charge you based off that value). If your collection appreciates .. they are not obligated to pay for that appreciation, only for the amount that you insured them for. It is your responsibility to increase the rider if your goods appreciate. You won't find anyone willing to do an 'exact replacement' clause for collectibles.

Insurance companies don't give a rat's a$$ if what you are insuring is worth what you are insuring it for. They make the assumption that nothing is going to happen to it in the first place. And then investigate you pretty thoroughly if something DOES happen in the first 2-3 years. You can rest assured that you will need to fight for every time (and it will take 6-12 months before you see a payment) if anything DOES happen to your tokens.

I had someone break into my Hobby Shop years ago and make off with a bunch of comics and magic cards out of the '$$' case .. and it took FOREVER to get my insurance company to pay out. And I had receipts, photos, grading reports, etc.

I used to restore Pinball machines .. and have a living room full of them. My rider is for what I think they are worth. No one ever came out to assess them. The burden of proof that they exist, and in the condition I said they are in is all on me. For the record, a $100k rider is about $75 a month in Maryland.
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