TOPIC: E bay seller ???

Picc wrote: You know as I think about the lifting pack I find myself wondering if people would use it as a slot less item. I think we got the restrictions right, just maybe not that it should compete with a cloak.

I wouldn't revise it now, but it might have been appropriate as a slotless token.

Picc wrote: You know as I think about the lifting pack I find myself wondering if people would use it as a slot less item. I think we got the restrictions right, just maybe not that it should compete with a cloak.

Yeah - that would be fine by me.

I mean - compare with Potion of Leaping Attack which is a rare consumable, lets you fight flyers for all of combat, but takes a standard action to activate.

Compare with Gloves of the flying fist, which offers a much better effect at UR, taking a similarly valuable slot, all the time - but only for one class.

Of course - then people would beef the token got upgraded after they sold it for peanuts .

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Picc wrote: You know as I think about the lifting pack I find myself wondering if people would use it as a slot less item. I think we got the restrictions right, just maybe not that it should compete with a cloak.

Yeah - that would be fine by me.

I mean - compare with Potion of Leaping Attack which is a rare consumable, lets you fight flyers for all of combat, but takes a standard action to activate.

Compare with Gloves of the flying fist, which offers a much better effect at UR, taking a similarly valuable slot, all the time - but only for one class.

Of course - then people would beef the token got upgraded after they sold it for peanuts .

Probably, but it would still be incredibly corner case.

I think revising it at this point would be a HUGE mistake. It would set a precedent, and people would start hounding Jeff to make all sorts of changes on tokens after the fact. Plus, you might then upset a lot of people that might have picked it as a PYP if it was slotless.

It just means we need to get a bit better at token design and try not and rush things with last minuet changes. IIRC the lifting pack had some quick last second changes since we went round a few times about it.

valetutto wrote: It just means we need to get a bit better at token design and try not and rush things with last minuet changes. IIRC the lifting pack had some quick last second changes since we went round a few times about it.

It started as slotless, didn't it? I think that was the big last-minute change.

Many tokens have changed after the fact. I thought Drugar's Die went from charm to slotless post-release, HoP went to flat 6, Read Magic, Knock, Fly and rumors became inert... So Fizzy Lifting wouldn't be the first. That precedent was set years ago.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

valetutto wrote: It just means we need to get a bit better at token design and try not and rush things with last minuet changes. IIRC the lifting pack had some quick last second changes since we went round a few times about it.

It started as slotless, didn't it? I think that was the big last-minute change.

Many tokens have changed after the fact. I thought Drugar's Die went from charm to slotless post-release, HoP went to flat 6, Read Magic, Knock, Fly and rumors became inert... So Fizzy Lifting wouldn't be the first. That precedent was set years ago.

There's only one solution. We'll have to make it an ingredient in the Legendary Fizzy Lifting Pack, which of course would be slotless.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

valetutto wrote: It just means we need to get a bit better at token design and try not and rush things with last minuet changes. IIRC the lifting pack had some quick last second changes since we went round a few times about it.

It started as slotless, didn't it? I think that was the big last-minute change.

.

Yes I believe that was the case.
I know this year we were better about not making after the fact last second changes that didn't get vetted.
We were not always that through.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

valetutto wrote: It just means we need to get a bit better at token design and try not and rush things with last minuet changes. IIRC the lifting pack had some quick last second changes since we went round a few times about it.

It started as slotless, didn't it? I think that was the big last-minute change.

Many tokens have changed after the fact. I thought Drugar's Die went from charm to slotless post-release, HoP went to flat 6, Read Magic, Knock, Fly and rumors became inert... So Fizzy Lifting wouldn't be the first. That precedent was set years ago.

It might have been a change that happened after the design process, but I figure that's OK since Jeff gets the final word in the designs, and he has deadlines to meet. I think the nature of the Fizzy Pack and Druegar's Die were finalized before people were able to order them, and that's what is most important.

I know Rumors are no longer usable, but I'm not sure Knock, Read Magic, and Scroll of Fly are in the same category. On Tokendb.com, the Rumor token descriptions use past tense, but the others don't. I'd guess if you cast Scroll of Fly, you'd be allowed to fly just like the Scroll says. I do think Knock no longer works on all locks - maybe that description should be updated? Personally I think Knock should be allowed to work - it is a consumable, and there aren't all that many out there, so as long as it isn't reprinted the problem would solve itself over time.

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

valetutto wrote: It just means we need to get a bit better at token design and try not and rush things with last minuet changes. IIRC the lifting pack had some quick last second changes since we went round a few times about it.

It started as slotless, didn't it? I think that was the big last-minute change.

Many tokens have changed after the fact. I thought Drugar's Die went from charm to slotless post-release, HoP went to flat 6, Read Magic, Knock, Fly and rumors became inert... So Fizzy Lifting wouldn't be the first. That precedent was set years ago.

It might have been a change that happened after the design process, but I figure that's OK since Jeff gets the final word in the designs, and he has deadlines to meet. I think the nature of the Fizzy Pack and Druegar's Die were finalized before people were able to order them, and that's what is most important.

I know Rumors are no longer usable, but I'm not sure Knock, Read Magic, and Scroll of Fly are in the same category. On Tokendb.com, the Rumor token descriptions use past tense, but the others don't. I'd guess if you cast Scroll of Fly, you'd be allowed to fly just like the Scroll says. I do think Knock no longer works on all locks - maybe that description should be updated? Personally I think Knock should be allowed to work - it is a consumable, and there aren't all that many out there, so as long as it isn't reprinted the problem would solve itself over time.

The Knock spell no longer works on the Rogue Box. That's because the Rogue's Box is not a physical treasure chest to be opened. It's a metaphysical testing of the Rogue's abilities to pop locks and such in order to get what's "inside."

Ro-gan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

valetutto wrote: It just means we need to get a bit better at token design and try not and rush things with last minuet changes. IIRC the lifting pack had some quick last second changes since we went round a few times about it.

It started as slotless, didn't it? I think that was the big last-minute change.

Many tokens have changed after the fact. I thought Drugar's Die went from charm to slotless post-release, HoP went to flat 6, Read Magic, Knock, Fly and rumors became inert... So Fizzy Lifting wouldn't be the first. That precedent was set years ago.

It might have been a change that happened after the design process, but I figure that's OK since Jeff gets the final word in the designs, and he has deadlines to meet. I think the nature of the Fizzy Pack and Druegar's Die were finalized before people were able to order them, and that's what is most important.

I know Rumors are no longer usable, but I'm not sure Knock, Read Magic, and Scroll of Fly are in the same category. On Tokendb.com, the Rumor token descriptions use past tense, but the others don't. I'd guess if you cast Scroll of Fly, you'd be allowed to fly just like the Scroll says. I do think Knock no longer works on all locks - maybe that description should be updated? Personally I think Knock should be allowed to work - it is a consumable, and there aren't all that many out there, so as long as it isn't reprinted the problem would solve itself over time.

The Knock spell no longer works on the Rogue Box. That's because the Rogue's Box is not a physical treasure chest to be opened. It's a metaphysical testing of the Rogue's abilities to pop locks and such in order to get what's "inside."

True, but we've tried using it on an actual lock, and it didn't work then either.

Mike Steele wrote:

Ro-gan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

valetutto wrote: It just means we need to get a bit better at token design and try not and rush things with last minuet changes. IIRC the lifting pack had some quick last second changes since we went round a few times about it.

It started as slotless, didn't it? I think that was the big last-minute change.

Many tokens have changed after the fact. I thought Drugar's Die went from charm to slotless post-release, HoP went to flat 6, Read Magic, Knock, Fly and rumors became inert... So Fizzy Lifting wouldn't be the first. That precedent was set years ago.

It might have been a change that happened after the design process, but I figure that's OK since Jeff gets the final word in the designs, and he has deadlines to meet. I think the nature of the Fizzy Pack and Druegar's Die were finalized before people were able to order them, and that's what is most important.

I know Rumors are no longer usable, but I'm not sure Knock, Read Magic, and Scroll of Fly are in the same category. On Tokendb.com, the Rumor token descriptions use past tense, but the others don't. I'd guess if you cast Scroll of Fly, you'd be allowed to fly just like the Scroll says. I do think Knock no longer works on all locks - maybe that description should be updated? Personally I think Knock should be allowed to work - it is a consumable, and there aren't all that many out there, so as long as it isn't reprinted the problem would solve itself over time.

The Knock spell no longer works on the Rogue Box. That's because the Rogue's Box is not a physical treasure chest to be opened. It's a metaphysical testing of the Rogue's abilities to pop locks and such in order to get what's "inside."

True, but we've tried using it on an actual lock, and it didn't work then either.

Yeah, it's getting ridiculous that Tokens designed to do a particular thing are no longer "working" in Rooms because it will possibly "break the Room." Players are getting punished anymore the past few years for coming up with great ideas for Tokens.

I remember one year I DM'ed a Room that involved a chasm the Players had to cross by getting a bridge to work. I mentioned the Scroll: Fly or tossing the Dwarf across with a character that had 30+ Strength could work instead of solving the puzzle. I even mentioned the Fly Scroll was a woodie UR so it wouldn't get used much, if at all. I was told that the fly spell would run out just before getting across and the Dwarf would just miss the other side no matter how much Strength the tosser(s) had.