TOPIC: Horn of Plenty and other such OOP tokens

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

MasterED wrote: It is a good topic because when the Charm of Good Fortune expires this year there will not be a treasure token boosting item being produced.

If the item functions the same as the HoP and occupies the Neck slot the it is a HoP with a different name. Unless it would cost more than an HoP to create it would lower the value of the existing HoP.

Even if it cost more to create and occupied the Ring slot it would likely lower the HoP because Ring is less contested slot than Neck.

If you wanted a new item similar to the HoP then a relic item with only a 2 multiplier is what I would suggest. Make it take the equivalent of 3 UR + trade goods to produce.

BUt there were no extra treaure draw tokens from 2007-2011(HoP in 2007, and RoR in 2011)
So people can get by without extra treasure tokens

I am against reprints and whiners

Sarcastic note
Why stop with the HoP..why not Seg1 and 2..then with Artifacts

It hurts no one to add more token draw into the game. The only reason not to make a new token similar to the HoP is to support elitism in the game or to keep it's price high for the owners of the token.

It hurts my back having to carry in extra Treasure chests off the truck
the RoR and CoGF came out for people complaining about not having a HoP



now people will be complaining about not having them either

yes it does hurt..it hurts the person that just traded 400-700(in cash or tokens for one) then it gets reprint(or another similar item)

or say you drop $500 for a +2 staff of power..then next year that gets reprinted...i hope the extra $400 was worth the one year of use

everyone will have their own opinion on this

It is not about elitism(i am better than you)..more about time/money put in
as I said last year
I have not been here since 2003(started running 2007 buying 2006)
I missed all those years of experience. That isnt fair either. So I should be able to get back experience(redo those dungeons) So i can be caught up with everyone else so it is fair

they were there from the beginning, That isnt fair. They put their time and money into the game. So why should someone who is new/newer be awarded everything for being new

That is the "everyone needs a trophy" for playing sports...IT is BS

I do one run a year where I get not extra treasure(no CoGF, No HoP, no Artifact and no RoR).
i do it for the fun of the game
do I do TD for treasure ..yes..not all the time(True grind etc) I use to do 2-5 TG runs a year(no treasure, well one chip now)

No one is saying everyone needs a trophy. What's being suggested is offering similar items through the transmutation system that would be of a higher cost to create.

Suggestions are for a token similar to HoP but inferior as an option for those who can't get HoP due to it's scarcity and cost.

If it's weaker than HoP how is that everyone being awarded everything?

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: No one is saying everyone needs a trophy. What's being suggested is offering similar items through the transmutation system that would be of a higher cost to create.

Suggestions are for a token similar to HoP but inferior as an option for those who can't get HoP due to it's scarcity and cost.

If it's weaker than HoP how is that everyone being awarded everything?

if tat is the case, why not reprint the HoP
but and a transmuting of the 2007 HoP where only 2007 version can be transmuted...(2-5x times the regular HoP)

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: I do one run a year where I get not extra treasure(no CoGF, No HoP, no Artifact and no RoR).
i do it for the fun of the game
do I do TD for treasure ..yes..not all the time(True grind etc) I use to do 2-5 TG runs a year(no treasure, well one chip now)

That's cool to hear

This is actually the first year I will have anything over a rare token myself. I've got 4 runs (2 NM) and a grind scheduled.

I got the COGF and the ROR for tokens but I got those because I enjoy the game and I want to be able to run the harder dungeon pieces with friends who can't afford the chips so we are getting more chips to work on better equipping our party.

I'd love to work on token selling like some of you forumites do, but even if I can't make that happen I can still play the game and enjoy it

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: No one is saying everyone needs a trophy. What's being suggested is offering similar items through the transmutation system that would be of a higher cost to create.

Suggestions are for a token similar to HoP but inferior as an option for those who can't get HoP due to it's scarcity and cost.

If it's weaker than HoP how is that everyone being awarded everything?

if tat is the case, why not reprint the HoP
but and a transmuting of the 2007 HoP where only 2007 version can be transmuted...(2-5x times the regular HoP)

Have a transmute on par with the current HoP, have another that's like double the HoP. Make the transmute very expensive without the HoP or much less if you use the HoP as an ingredient.

Serves to keep the HoP valuable, lets new players have access to an HoP like chip and rewards those who already have one by making it better (more loot/charm slot/etc)

Many semi-random thoughts:

Jeff made a promise not to reprint the HoP, and people acted on that promise. We're relative late-comers and made a big investment in our HoPs, and I'd be sad to lose $1000 in value because that promise was broken with a reprint. Anybody would be. Maybe "sad" isn't the right word. So, yeah, I'll push back on some HoP-ish suggestions - but see four paragraphs below. It's not all about me...

If your alternative is an inferior, more expensive HoP, then why not just get the HoP?

And we've all seen what happens to relics. They cost $500-700 in materials to make, and then a year or two later they sell for a little more than a PYP. Probably wouldn't happen to a HoP reprint, but even so.

The only way I can see to address the supply and demand aspect is to increase the supply of players - which means increasing the number of runs per year. If you could do that, the economy could support more treasure-drawing tokens. But that means more space, more volunteers, and/or doing more conventions or events. None of those seem in the cards in the near future.

My biggest fear around loot is that we start attracting players in it only to farm treasure tokens. When you can average more loot per run than the price of the ticket, the temptation is to buy as many tickets as you can get. That crowds out the people who want to play for fun, which makes Jeff raise ticket prices, which drives everyone but the farmers away, regular people stop buying tokens and loot and the whole thing collapses. It could become the whole "golden goose" scenario, where the game is killed by greed. The farmers end up busted in the end, but not before causing a lot of grief for everyone else along the way.

One of the great things about TD is it isn't an us-versus-them game, it's us-versus-Jeff It seems it ends up getting competitive anyway.

There are definitely valid points in there.

Maybe the point is not to reprint the HoP but print another token similar to the RoR or CoGF that takes the same spot. Less tokens per run and not compatible with the HoP, kind of an HoP light.

It's also possible there's simply no other option and HoP has to stay the way it is.

Out of Curiosity what are the other "never reprinted" tokens out there?

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: It hurts no one to add more token draw into the game.

It does, however, increase TD's operational costs. By how much, I don't know, but it's greater than zero.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Out of Curiosity what are the other "never reprinted" tokens out there?

Officially, Horn of Plenty is the only token Jeff has promised to never reprint.

Time for this again already?

Here's my two SP.

I own Ro¥ and CoGF both. And I use them, but only on regular, and only to try to make sure I get a good compliment of monster bits for transmuting (not that I do...).

I would not mind if no new treasure boosters were added, and those two were cycled so new players at least had access to them. I also wouldn't mind if no treasure boosters were ever printed again. Heck I wouldn't even mind if the existing treasure boosters were banned or restricted.

That said, I would like to see a new necklace with a diminished HoP effect and a using in game power (+1 Treasure per stamp and +1 to saves for example).

And what I would really love to see is an item that is more powerful than normal with the penalty of decreasing your treasure pulls.

And I doubt farmers will be an issue unless/until TD spreads beyond GenCon. Right now it is a little too niche and infrequent. And there are other ways to prevent that. Like limiting mules to prevent botting.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

MasterED wrote: It is a good topic because when the Charm of Good Fortune expires this year there will not be a treasure token boosting item being produced.

If the item functions the same as the HoP and occupies the Neck slot the it is a HoP with a different name. Unless it would cost more than an HoP to create it would lower the value of the existing HoP.

Even if it cost more to create and occupied the Ring slot it would likely lower the HoP because Ring is less contested slot than Neck.

If you wanted a new item similar to the HoP then a relic item with only a 2 multiplier is what I would suggest. Make it take the equivalent of 3 UR + trade goods to produce.

BUt there were no extra treaure draw tokens from 2007-2011(HoP in 2007, and RoR in 2011)
So people can get by without extra treasure tokens

I am against reprints and whiners

Sarcastic note
Why stop with the HoP..why not Seg1 and 2..then with Artifacts

I believe Jeff said he would only reprint things I need/want.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: No one is saying everyone needs a trophy. What's being suggested is offering similar items through the transmutation system that would be of a higher cost to create.

Suggestions are for a token similar to HoP but inferior as an option for those who can't get HoP due to it's scarcity and cost.

If it's weaker than HoP how is that everyone being awarded everything?

if tat is the case, why not reprint the HoP
but and a transmuting of the 2007 HoP where only 2007 version can be transmuted...(2-5x times the regular HoP)

Have a transmute on par with the current HoP, have another that's like double the HoP. Make the transmute very expensive without the HoP or much less if you use the HoP as an ingredient.

Serves to keep the HoP valuable, lets new players have access to an HoP like chip and rewards those who already have one by making it better (more loot/charm slot/etc)

Doesn't this kind of go against the reason you are requesting this? You guys are saying you need something equivalent due to the scarcity and cost of the HoP. Well making another item that costs more or requires HoP users to transmute (or even to get more tokens than the HoP gives now!). I'm with lazlo on this, I didn't start in the beginning either and I was a year or two behind laz. Guess what, I slowly acquired the items I wanted, I traded, scraped, and gathered.