TOPIC: 2013 Gencon Dungeon Only Tokens

I heard that number several times, and evidently came from the top.

I wish I'd have known that. I'd have pulled from it sooner (finally did sat night but nothing in 16 pulls). 120 pulls for 2 of us and nothing worth mentioning other then some bits. Had I known I'd have gone for purps.

I really feel cheated on my pulls based on all of this.

On my first run, I pulled 8 from each box. The monster bits gave me 2 bits and the gear box gave me reds, greens, and one Ammo of Alteration. Second run was the same, minus the Ammo. These were pulled on Thursday.

Friday treated me a little better, having two 'naked' runs that got me 16 pulls each. I took all the pulls from the gear box and got a Girdle of Frost Giant Strength and a Scepter of the Dead.

Saturday was great. I did a total of three runs and the first two netted me 3 Girdles of Frost Giant Strength from the first two runs, and reds and greens from the third run.

The other members in my groups did as well, if not better. I saw a Horn of Plenty (allegedly one per newly filled box/bucket), multiple Rings of Heroisms, Greater Cloaks, Draco Lich Claw Charms, Girdles, and a single Dragon Tooth Amulet.

I tried to tell as many people as I could to pull from the gear box in attempt to share the wealth, so I am sorry if I missed anyone.

The 1/20 ratio seems like a good guess based on what I've seen and heard. Before this year, I would have pegged it as more like 1/60+ or even less.

I understand wanting to up the number of "amazing" pulls from the treasure boxes, but (1) this was far too extreme of a jump too quickly and (2) I'm not sure if they were mixed in evenly. One newbie in one of my runs only got three treasure pulls, but all of them were URs or relics. Ridiculous.

The gamingetc people told me they were very upset as well. One of them mentioned possibly getting out of True Dungeon tokens altogether. I suspect that was just an emotional flippant statement rather than a reasoned and final business decision though.

Out of 40 some pulls, I got 6 monster bits, a Shirt of Shielding, and a bunch of random reds and greens. Not bad, but nothing compared to what other pulled.

Garrison wrote: The gamingetc people told me they were very upset as well. One of them mentioned possibly getting out of True Dungeon tokens altogether. I suspect that was just an emotional flippant statement rather than a reasoned and final business decision though.

Why does that statement have to be "emotional" and "flippant"?

IMHO, it could very well be a rational and reasoned business decision. This year's treasure pulls will likely destabilize the token market and significantly lower values/prices. As if the glut of players unloading their token collections (flooding the market with purples, in the days before GenCon) weren't bad enough.

I imagine the profit margin for tokens must have dropped dramatically this year for Gaming Etc. Perhaps even going into the red (loss instead of profit).

I would not be surprised if Gaming Etc does leave the token business. And if they do, I would understand it, rather than try to dismiss it as an "emotional" kneejerk response.

Yes, it could very well be a necessary business decision. I would not be surprised if they had already been considering it before this year's con.

But it was emotional and flippant because they were emotional and flippant in tone as they explained things to me. They were not at all speaking as one who was discussing business decisions, but as one who was feeling pressure and thus likely to blurt out impulsive thoughts.

The red ioun stones were gone by Saturday for Nightmare. Our group didn't get any for Saturday or Sunday runs.

I have extras of both nightmare coins, since I ran with my sons they don't craft or anything...

Let me get my trade stuff up and we can work out something for them.
Belt of the Fey (Lycan's Afoot Hardcore) - Rare
Immune to Charm

Ioun Stone Ruby Prism (Golembane Hardcore) - Rare
Subtract 1 pt of damage per melee attack.

Knowing now that the Super treasure pulls will not be back for next year if Gamingetc were to get out it would seem they were acting prematurely. This year may hurt then but next year will return to normal.

jedibcg wrote: Knowing now that the Super treasure pulls will not be back for next year if Gamingetc were to get out it would seem they were acting prematurely. This year may hurt then but next year will return to normal.

Is it really that premature? What does it mean to go back to "normal?" I'm asking these questions objectively (*not* in any sort of sarcastic or denigrating tone).

Yes, next year won't have the crazy good draws of this year, but it will likely have some other gimmick. Or the year after will have something else.

I mean, look at something like the Horn of Plenty. A few years back (was it maybe 2009 or 2010?) after the HoP was "out of print," a limited number of HoP's still became available to token buyers.

Every now and then, a HoP becomes available through Golden Ticket, but that is pretty cornercase.

Then last year there was the whole Mithral Coin of Fate thing, available to all Golden Ticket players (had a chance to win it) or anyone who used a UR Special.

And now this year a whole bunch of HoP's enter the market through this year's special pulls.

Not quite at the HoP level, but don't forget that older tokens (including some UR's) were also made available in 2011 and 2012 through the Treasure Map draws.

The bottom line is that making older and/or out-of-print tokens available again is something that is consistently done (for better or for worse). And that's not even getting into the issues of actual reprints and ever increasing power creep. All this leads to a great deal of uncertainty and risk for those like Gaming Etc who invest heavily in inventory in hopes of making a profit.

If I were Gaming Etc, I would seriously consider getting out of the for-profit token business. The latest Relic bonanza is certainly the most "egregious" (from the viewpoint of some interest groups), but it's just the latest in a series of decisions that have consistently devalued tokens. (As a player, it's hard to say whether it would be "good" or "bad" if Gaming Etc left the token business. I certainly wouldn't be crying about it, but there are some supporters of Gaming Etc who argue that it provides a useful service to TD players).

I agree they need to weigh all the factors and determine if the can make a profit. That is what they are attempting to do after all. But to decide to get out before finding out all the factors would be premature.

Since they do at times profit off the gimmicks (the GT is a gimmick afterall) I don't think that all gimmicks aren't something that hurt them. It is a market ride. This one caught them unaware. It could be argued if they are going to relay on the market to make profits they should be aware of what it is doing. Not an agruement I am making just saying it is a valid agruement. Since we knew there was going to be something different about this token pulls a little bit of time spent hanging around the pulls might have covered them to know what was going on really fast. And I bet you if they had figured out a way to turn a profit on it they would have. Buying treasure chips at $1 each would have had some folks dumping them not knowing what was inside. I don't know if those numbers are right to turn a profit, I am not here to make a profit. I am not saying this is a bad thing either.

If they get out it is of course their choice. I think someone will step up to fill the void one way or another if there is money to be made. Even with tokens devaluing there is still room to make some. You just have to know the market. There will always be a token that is more highly sought than another. Now there maybe work involved and maybe more work than what the money will be worth but for now I think our economy is safe with or without Gamingetc.