TOPIC: New Token Valuation

<br />Don't forget the Rogue - +3 to hit with a short bow... OK not that great...but who is it that has +2 DEX - the Ranger???  They would be +2 from DEX, +1 with MW arrow and +1 from LB and then maybe Bless and BArd song in effect...Thats a bunch of plus to hit!<br />

<br />True, but I usually evaluate damage done as opposed to chance to hit when evaluating weapons. This is mostly because I assume most people who are heavy into this sort of value dickering that we do are all long term TD people and we must either be pretty good sliders at this point or we avoid it altogether. The former care more for maximized damage output and the later likely aren't focusing on the weapon they're carrying anyway. If only the rogue could use the LB +1, its value would certainly go up and up. As it is, being the best damage weapon for the bard and a good weapon for non-ambi rangers makes it pretty spiffy as opposed to crap.

Actually the missile weapons should all go up even more if you think about the fact that, yes, the bonus strength types lose their damage from strength bonus, but the bracers of archery negate that damage loss, and with the +1 bow & MW bolts/arrows your now a point ahead of a +1 melee weapon... THEN you throw in the fact that if the monster doesn't surprise you, you get a free shot before hand-to-hand begins... <br /><br />  (I can't remember the stats, but I'm assuming +2 hit/dam from str)<br /><br />max melee fighter (just VR or less):<br /> <br />  gauntlets<br />  greatsword +1<br /><br />  +4 to hit, 5-14 pts damage<br /><br />max missile fighter:<br /><br />  bracers of archery<br />  heavy rep. xbow<br />  MW bolts<br /><br />  +0 to hit, 4-13 pts damage, additional pre-melee shot<br /><br />And if you allow for purps, it stays similar (girdle and +2 weapon for melee, gloves and +1 xbow for missile).<br /><br />All in all, if your confident in your sliding ability, getting that bonus shot before combat ensues is probably worth the reduced to hit bonus...<br /><br />That said, on top of the missile weapons gaining value, the gloves of dexterity just got even better... <br /> 

Don't forget the +2 gloves of dex for ranged.

They also lose the damage bonus from gauntlets and girdles. Not to mention that none of them are likely to have much dex. I know the fighter has zilch, but no clue about barb. That means that they're not gaining bonus to damage, even with the bracers, yet losing a bunch to hit. For example using the fighter:<br /><br />Normal 2-handed weapon config is:<br /><br />+2/+2 from strength<br />+1/+1 from gauntlets<br />+1/+1 from magic weapon<br />6.5 average damage from great sword +1<br /><br />Total: +4 to hit, 9.5 damage per hit<br /><br />Bowfighter<br /><br />-1 AC from no bracers of defense<br />+0/+2 from bracers of archery<br />+0/+1 from masterwork bolt/arrow<br />+1/+1 from magic weapon<br />5.5 average damage from longbow +1<br /><br />+1 to hit, 8.5 damage per hit.<br /><br />And I'm never taking into consideration purples just as a note. You guys can do the calculations yourself if you happen to have one of them. They're too rare to factor into the analysis for most people.<br /><br />The LB +1 only becomes really useful for the bard or ranger who don't have much of a strength bonus and a good dex bonus.

Barb and PAL are +1<br />Ranger +2<br />Rogue +3

Also if you have the scroll of Bless cast, its +1 hit bonus to the group for that room, and also a +1 to any save vs Fear.

Bless has to be going UP in value...<br /><br />I think it was 50 before - it could hit 60 or even 75...methinks.

But I think the key thing is that the "bowfighter" is going to get a bonus attack unless surprised... if you roll well that extra attack more than makes up for losing +3 to hit...

<br />Bless has to be going UP in value...<br /><br />I think it was 50 before - it could hit 60 or even 75...methinks.<br />

<br />I don't see it really. Again, if bless increased damage +1, sure. But to hit is just not as good in general. Part of the reason for that is the way the numbers are lined up on the sliding board. Most people do just fine aiming laterally. What always messes people up is the strength of the throw. the numbers that a token passes through when throw don't go up by single digits. It's always something like:<br />....20<br />17.18.19<br />..15.16<br />..13.14<br /><br />Or even more stretched setups where the sequential numbers are laterally adjacent and not vertically adjacent. That means that as you slide the whozit, you're more likely to either hit or miss (>1) number differneces than small ones where a single small bonus to hit might help.

<br />But I think the key thing is that the "bowfighter" is going to get a bonus attack unless surprised... if you roll well that extra attack more than makes up for losing +3 to hit...<br />

<br />I don't see anything in the guide about ranged weapons getting an extra initial attack.

I'm sending the Price Guide to Jeff now so it should be out soon.  :color:

<br />I'm sending the Price Guide to Jeff now so it should be out soon.  :color:<br />

<br />Were there enough data points to establish values for the new items or did you just guesstimate?