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TOPIC: New Token Valuation

Re: New Token Valuation 18 years 2 weeks ago #13

I've seen two EXCELLENT Rangers...<br /><br />Raven was one once - I think it was...and that was quite a show!!!<br /><br />And my SoCal buddy Ben who usually is encouraged to play the Ranger...he is in the RED CROSS run video sliding two and hitting CRITs left and right - as well as bumping people into CRITS...I tell you if you can find the person with ambi-skillz - they are AWESOME at Ranger, it's like having another person in combat every round.
Gary aka: Grimwood, Cleric of the Western Woods CLERIC for life - I have the character card to prove it! Former owner of a Ring of Three Wishes and Jeff's finger!

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Re: New Token Valuation 18 years 2 weeks ago #14

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It's just generally rare. I'm a pretty good token slider...took 2nd in the barbrawl...but when I've played ranger or tried with both hands, it takes forever to try to get things synched. Even then, I can't guarentee exact placement, just general area. In fact, when a critical hit was necessary, I would sometimes just muck the left handed throw, basically not paying attention to it at all and just letting it travel a couple of inches.

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Re: New Token Valuation 18 years 2 weeks ago #15

Raven is a ranger in the DDA (Dungeon Delvers Anonymous) group.<br />David (S.)
"Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be." Abe Lincoln

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Re: New Token Valuation 18 years 2 weeks ago #16

Well - I think this might have been a little on the side freelance work I observed of our favorite Guild Master.
Gary aka: Grimwood, Cleric of the Western Woods CLERIC for life - I have the character card to prove it! Former owner of a Ring of Three Wishes and Jeff's finger!

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Re: New Token Valuation 18 years 2 weeks ago #17

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(evil grin)<br /><br />Ah, yes. Ambidexterity rocks. Good for Thieves _and_ Rangers.<br /><br />Gotta get me some of that Elven chain. (I think Henwy's suggested value is pretty close, or maybe a little on the low side, myself)
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Re: New Token Valuation 18 years 2 weeks ago #18

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<br />Gotta get me some of that Elven chain. (I think Henwy's suggested value is pretty close, or maybe a little on the low side, myself)<br />

<br />There is going to be one thing that keeps the elven chain prices down and that's human nature. Most people who play TD, if they're serious about it, want to play one of the lobster classes in general. This is ecspecially true in mixed groups where you didn't pick who you're going in with. The idea is purely a ME ME ME sort of phenomenom. Being a lobster class, and ecspecially the paladin or cleric, offers you individually the best chance of surviving the dungeon. Thus, you prep for being one of those classes if you can manage it. The people who end up as rangers and thieves always seem to generally be someone who's talked into taking those slots rather than out of any real preference for it. There's always arguements about 'well I can't be the (ranger/thief), I have no (manual dexterity/coordination/opposable thumbs).'<br /><br />So basically what drives trading at this point is new people since a lot of us 'old timers' have more or less finished our main collection and are just tweaking and when those newbies show up to trade, they're usually thinking of making themselves into a lobster. At least that's what I've notice doing trading in the past two gencons and chatting with people.

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Re: New Token Valuation 18 years 2 weeks ago #19

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"Lobster class".  I like that.<br /><br />Maybe we should put it in the token guide.<br /><br />"Lobster classes" vs. "Squid classes"  :cool:<br /><br />
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use." - Galileo Galilei

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Re: New Token Valuation 18 years 2 weeks ago #20

<br />"Lobster class".  I like that.<br /><br />Maybe we should put it in the token guide.<br /><br />"Lobster classes" vs. "Squid classes"   :cool:<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br />Lobster Classes  VS  Squish Classes.<br /><br />
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Re: New Token Valuation 18 years 2 weeks ago #21

See, I've always called them "meat shields," but I guess Lobster Class works :-)<br /><br />I do very much want to do a run as a Paladin this year, but I'm hoping maybe I can do other runs as Bard and either Wizard or Ranger as well. I like finesse classes - the Paladin I mostly want because it'll give me a chance to use my arms and armor to the full extent. I'd be something like AC 24, +3 to hit, +2 to damage as it stands right now. If I can get a couple trades I want done, all those numbers will increase by 1 or 2.

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Re: New Token Valuation 18 years 2 weeks ago #22

The "Meat Stick" is the Barbarian class...
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Re: New Token Valuation 18 years 1 week ago #23

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Well, with the token guide's release we have a couple of good reasons to revise the projected price list. In addition to getting a definitive answer on what a few of the new scrolls do, the chances with ranged combat also will impact things.<br /><br />

<br />Scroll of Mirror Image: If this token works pretty much like the spell, I likes it. Basically it allows the wizard to enter combat (maybe tossing the weighted net or something or even whacking with his staff) and not face dire chances for death and dismemberment, at least on a temporary basis. This is of course for mages that aren't already armored out the wazoo with other things. The best comparrison for this token's value is the VR mage armor which is far more useful, lasting the entire dungeon and currently valued at 80 (which I think is low btw). It's not a bad idea to have a few of these as a mage in the offchanc that your party is whittled down and another body is needed to suck up blows (like with that 6-armed whatchamacallit) or just to get in there and burning hands. Value: 55<br /><br />Scroll of Mage Hand: As per the spell, this is going to be a very useful utility token. It's definitely not necessary but everyone can think of a situation in the dungeon when it might be better to have a spectral force pull a lever or touch some oddity rather than going in there and laying a hand on it. This will be the token for groups that are ulta-meticulous and plan. Frankly, oftentimes I prefer to bash things but even I learn caution occassionally. Bottom line, I likes it. Value: 50<br /><br />Scroll of Blink: Frankly, I'm not exactly sure what good this token is with mirror image also around since it is also self only. As per the spell description you basically get the sustained effect of a cloak of displacement (50% miss rate) while it is active. With mirror image though, you get _better_ than a 50% miss rate which diminishes as images are hit. The only advantage to blink is the ability move through solid objects, which I'm almost sure will be neutered somewhat. Can't have people choosing to walk through doors instead of solving the puzzle to get through it, right? Anyway, most of the value from this seems to come from it being a VR. Value: 75<br /><br />+1 Longbow: <sigh> It's the neverending quest to make ranged weapons even slightly worth it so that people will give them a whirl. I just don't know if that's possible with the throwing mechanic. Assuming that you can't control how the darn token will flip, you're at a 50% miss rate even before we see where the token has landed. Overall, the disadvantage of hurling anything at range is huge. This is despite the fact that we continually see tokens that hype it and trying to close the gap. By this point with the masterwork bolts/arrows and the bracers of archery, you're at a +3 damage if you can land it compared to equivalent melee weapon. I just dunno. At +4 maybe, but it seems the gulf is still too wide. There's a reason why our poor heavy repeating crossbow has been languishing at the bottom of the perm VR item valuations for so long. Basically at this point, they're equivalent (the longbow +1 and the heavy repeating xbow). Both shoot every round and both have an average damage rating of 5.5 points per hit. The only advantage the longbow +1 has is initial novelty. Value: 135<br />

<br /><br />Scroll of Mirror Image: The changes to the scroll from its 3.5 equivalent brings down its powers a good smidge, and thus its value.  Instead of lasting until a number of images are completely destroyed, it now basically just gives you one image. In practical effect, it's now  like a weakened cloak of displacement but for one room only. It can give you a 50% miss chance for one hit but the fact that the target is determined prior to the attack roll is the killer. The turn required to use it in the first place is also pretty sucktastic. Still, if you think about it, in a even good sized party, the chances of the mage getting attacked more than once per combat is a bit iffy. Previous Value: 55 Updated Value: 40 <br /><br />Scroll of Mage Hand: Pretty much ended up much like we all expected. Still seems like a good utility token though I imagine a lot of effort will go into designing dungeon rooms where this isn't a simple gimmie and pass through. No surprise means no change in value. Previous Value: 50 Updated Value: 50<br /><br />Scroll of Blink: More or less as expected in function, though without any of the other new fangled possibilities such as the ability to pass through solid objects. That was hardly a surprise in the end. What this will basically do is give the mage the effect of a more or less perm cloak of displacement with a 50% miss chance off the top. The downside of this of course is the fact that it projects a character that essentially shouldn't be in melee combat anyway. Mage armor is still the definitive defense but this is certainly a good enough backup in rooms where anyone can be targeted for whack-a-mole. If only this spell could be cast on other characters, it would be a killer. It might be slightly more valuable now that mirror image has been neutered, but should still be below mage armor in my opinion. I think I ended up just overvaluing it the first time around. Previous Value: 75 Updated Value: 70<br /><br />Longbow +1: Well, it looks like ranged has finally been fixed and I expect a run on the heavy x-bow, bracers of archery and of course the longbow +1. The LB +1 is now the best weapon for the bard in dealing damage, ecspecially when comboed with the bracers. It also becomes the best choice of weapon for rangers who don't double slide well. The heavy x-bow lags behind because it is only usable by fighters and barbs, two clasees which would lose their strength bonus to hit/damage when using it. Previous Value: 135 Updated Value: 160<br /><br />

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Re: New Token Valuation 18 years 1 week ago #24

Don't forget the Rogue - +3 to hit with a short bow... OK not that great...but who is it that has +2 DEX - the Ranger???  They would be +2 from DEX, +1 with MW arrow and +1 from LB and then maybe Bless and BArd song in effect...Thats a bunch of plus to hit!
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