TOPIC: Charm of Treasure Idea

Swapping for monster ingredients would be bad for the market. Maybe have it transmutable to a relic to do something like that.

I guess the question at that point though would be would a 1:1 treasure coin to monster ingredient swap say once per dungeon have more or less impact on the secondary market then groups potentially drawing 10x10 extra tokens. Which isn't really a question we can answer without knowing more about the token mix in the treasure generators.

Additionally (and I'm not really sure where I stand on this yet either) would it be a bad thing if monster parts took a hit in price. Most of the low end recipes say monster part or 80-250gp which would seem to imply that's what they are worth in the eyes of TD. Most people on the form would value 250gp around $6 but monster parts regularly sell for $10+ (closer to $20 in the case of 2011 (claw charm))

Honestly though all that aside any extra treasure items should should really be talked about and considered carefully before implementation since as we've seen people take that stuff very seriously and putting genies back in bottles is very tricky.

how about a charm of harvesting instead.

instead of one draw being random, you automatically get on monster trophy.

much less powerful in terms of numbers drawn and allows certainty on at least getting one per run.

I like the Charm of harvesting idea as well, would be nice to be guarenteed at least 1 monster trophy and would increase the supply of monster tokens thus pushing the price down slightly.

I still see a lot of problems with changing treasure draws. The item pretty much needs to be slotless at that point. Here's why:

On Thursday I do every TD run on every difficulty level. I have my HoP and RoR and this new thing. I am also 6th level. At the end of each run, I have 3 (base) + 6 (HoP) + 3 (RoR) + 1 (6th level) = 13 treasure draws. Now, I have run 6 times, and haven't turned in. I didn't run the Charm of Whatever at all. I show it to the table and start greedily taking 76 monster bits.

Charm of Harvesting could be interesting though:

Charm of Harvesting Show at XP desk to get 1 random monster ingredient from Dungeon.

That removes a lot of the issues of changing draws and modifying treasure boxes. It would change the Ingredients market some, but not as much as being able to draw all Ingredients.

Another idea:
Charm of Ingredients Turn in 2 Treasure Tokens to draw 1 Ingredient from a special box.

It does make another box. It actually lowers the output of tokens from the TD side. It makes a choice for the player that is interesting from the collecting standpoint. Again, the biggest drawback is you cannot prove it was worn during the run. This also adds Ingredients to the market, but at the cost of other treasure (and possible ingredients or Transmuted or whatever else you would pull).

I'd prefer if there weren't any "get automatic monster tokens" tokens, I like them being random in the boxes.

If there were a max number put on the Charm of Treasure, 5 as a max would make sense, as that would average out to 3 to equal the Ring of Riches (possibilities would be 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 = average of 5).

I do like the thought of it being a Charm of Ancient Treasure, with pulls out of the Treasure Map boxes. That would have little or no cost to True Dungeon, a max of 10 would still be reasonable (equal to one Treasure Map worth of pulls), and is a bit different from the HoP and RoR.

I also like the idea of tokens that give you Treasure Stamps - either bonus Treasure Stamps, or just making sure you get all 3. I could go for that. Maybe the Charm could guarantee one Treasure Stamp (max of 4) for each person in the party wearing a Charm, so if four or more people were wearing the Charm, those people wearing Charms would get 4 guaranteed Treasure Stamps. That would be harder to manage at the XP Desk, but I'll bet it could be worked out.

Mike, the Charm of Treasure's average would actually be 3.636363 (0+1+2+3+4+5+5+5+5+5+5)/11.

Charm of Ancient Treasure could be cool, but I don't know at what point would tip to more treasure out than in . . .

I like the Treasure Stamps idea a lot too. I'm not sure they need to be synergistic though. It could be cool to make them individual and transmutable:

Glasses of Treasure Detection
Gain 1 additional treasure stamp at the end of Dungeon (max = dungeon norm + 1)

Monocle of Treasure Finding Gain all treasure stamps at end of dungeon (max = dungeon norm + 1)

Smoak's Treasure Map Gain all treasure stamps and all hidden treasure effects from dungeon. (max = dungeon norm + 1) and things like Rogue's Choice/hidden rooms etc would be applied no matter what happened in the dungeon.

And just to keep up to date on all the ideas I am putting them in one post. I'm to lazy to quote, so credit where credit is due. . .


The proposal is for a Charm of Treasure, to work like the Charm of Synergy. For anyone having a Charm of Treasure, they would get one extra treasure coin at the end of the adventure for every Charm of Treasure in the group. If they have the only one they get one extra coin, if everyone has one, everyone gets 10 extra treasure coins. With the Ring of Riches going out of print next year, that leaves an opening for a token like this.

You could also do something like
"+1 treasure pull per unstamped treasure square. +2 treasure pulls if all squares stamped."

Glasses of Treasure Detection
Gain 1 additional treasure stamp at the end of Dungeon (max = dungeon norm + 1)

Monocle of Treasure Finding Gain all treasure stamps at end of dungeon (max = dungeon norm + 1)

Smoak's Treasure Map Gain all treasure stamps and all hidden treasure effects from dungeon. (max = dungeon norm + 1) and things like Rogue's Choice/hidden rooms etc would be applied no matter what happened in the dungeon.

charm of harvesting
instead of one draw being random, you automatically get on monster trophy.

Charm of Harvesting Show at XP desk to get 1 random monster ingredient from Dungeon.

Charm of Ingredients Turn in 2 Treasure Tokens to draw 1 Ingredient from a special box.

Charm of Ancient Treasure, with pulls out of the Treasure Map boxes. That would have little or no cost to True Dungeon, a max of 10 would still be reasonable (equal to one Treasure Map worth of pulls), and is a bit different from the HoP and RoR.

more that I missed:

We could also get more meta and do something like a charm that gave you the dungeon reward token from the other dungeon or difficulty. Or a charm that let you swap your treasure pulls directly for monster ingredients. Volume doesn't have to be the only interaction with the treasure box.

Darkangel, not sure it's fair to count zero, so if you don't the average is 4, and a party with 10 charms gets 50 extra tokens, vs 30 if they all wear rings. Not sure how to calculate the cap to make them "equal".

Maybe something like: get two extra draws. At xp desk, the party rolls a d20 and if they have at least that number of charms between them, they each get two more. A party with ten would average an extra 3 tokens that way, so it's only really as good as the RoR if everyone has one. You could give a bonus -1 to the roll for each treasure stamp just to make it complicated, but that would tip the relative worth a little. But you don't want people rolling individually, would take too much time.

Brad,

I originally did not count zero and thought about how many groups go through without purps of any kind. That led me to edit the 0 in.

I really would like to see another treasure generating token. It has to be feasible for both TD and for the players though. I still think we need KISS if anything will be printed to make more tokens generated.

A die roll might work okay in the marshaling/equipping room, if the party can get together and be ready in time. Something like that might be hard to fit the effect on the token.

What about something similar to the AoW?
Amulet of Greed: Special Treasure Effect Each Year.

Have a list of 5-10 different treasure effects that happen when you wear it:

1) get an extra ingredient after your run
2) get an additional treasure stamp
3) get a different participation token in addition to your run's participation token
4) get a random trade token (skewed like the TTs Argonite/Fleece rarer than Enchanter's Ink for example)
5) get a previous year's ingredient token. (could be useful at GC for trade ins still)
6) get a previous year's participation token. (better for newer players than vets, but that's okay too)
7) get a special treasure token (like Harpy Claw Amulet or Necklace of the Oak)
8) receive all treasure stamps from your dungeon run (only affects wearer)
9) a special room that takes place after the XP desk where a "store owner" sells items.*
10) a "raid Smoak's hoard" mini-game after your run for bonus treasure. . .
11) double all treasure stamps. (as it is in the same slot as HoP, only Laz would be able to double HoP).
12) get 1-3 additional treasure tokens.

* I know we have had discussions about this before, but it could be fun, even if it is not feasible.

darkangel866 wrote: Charm of Harvesting Show at XP desk to get 1 random monster ingredient from Dungeon.

The problem I have with this is whats to stop someone from buying 10 of these then claiming 10 monster bits per run, and passing it around to his friends. Only way I could see it working is if it had to be equipped and had a check box the coach marked like ROR and HOP.

Mike Steele wrote:
I also like the idea of tokens that give you Treasure Stamps - either bonus Treasure Stamps, or just making sure you get all 3. I could go for that. Maybe the Charm could guarantee one Treasure Stamp (max of 4) for each person in the party wearing a Charm, so if four or more people were wearing the Charm, those people wearing Charms would get 4 guaranteed Treasure Stamps. That would be harder to manage at the XP Desk, but I'll bet it could be worked out.

I would buy this and I cant really think of any way to break it.

darkangel866 wrote: Smak's Treasure Map

Fixed that for you XD

a charm that gives treasure would have to only give +1 treasure draw (maybe +2, but probably not)
the bigger issue is that TD has to avoid continuing to create more and more +token items. in fact, i thought the whole idea behind the ring of riches was to be the recurring +token items. since the horn of plenty was promised to not be reprinted, jeff needed a different +token item that could be reprinted every few years to give new players/collectors a +token item. and if it is the only one getting reprinted, it wont break the TD 'bank'.
i expect that next year will be an off-year that the ring of riches is not available, the year after that may or may not see its return, depending on the demand of the new collectors.