TOPIC: Surrendering tokens

Ok, this is probably a silly question, but can anyone clarify what is meant by surrendering tokens? Do you give them over permanently or just loose them for the adventure? It seems like it would not be as worth while to buy them if you are going to loose them, not to mention making it harder to collect.

One-use items like scrolls and potions are turned in to the DM when they are used.

Yes, one use items have to be surrendered. Anything else you get to keep. There are VERY few Ultra Rare one use items but they are also exceptionally powerful.

Is it known what happens to surrendered tokens? Do they leave the token eco-system, or are they put back into circulation eventually through treasure boxes? Or was that where Smoak got his (erm... her) swimming pool?



I saw a very nice thing last year in one of my SMOAK battles: a player surrendered an Elixir of Life (bring back from dead, ready to fight) and the DM handed it to me on our way out of the dungeon at the end of the fight and said "You guys did great you can have this." I ran ahead (after seeing what it was) and gave it back to the player who had spent it...

Not to be a dick, but... y'know; shouldn't that token have remained spent?

I want and need to know what would happen if the one of the Ioun Stone would be spend especially one of the Ioun Stone is a Ultra-rare and the Black Pearl?

Only the rare Ioun Stone: Violet Prism is 'disposable'. It is the only one you won't keep if all three charges are used

Eversuede wrote: I want and need to know what would happen if the one of the Ioun Stone would be spend especially one of the Ioun Stone is a Ultra-rare and the Black Pearl?

Both of those items are permanent. It has been said that all Ioun stones travel too fast to be grabbed and would have to be targeted to be destroyed. I do not believe that player ioun stones would ever be targeted by monsters in TD. If they were the TD community might revolt.

Now the Violet Prism Ioun Stone has only 3 uses so it is the only one that would become useless after use. I think you still get to keep it just with three holes punched in the thing.

Eversuede wrote: I want and need to know what would happen if the one of the Ioun Stone would be spend especially one of the Ioun Stone is a Ultra-rare and the Black Pearl?

Ioun Stones, with the exception of the Violet Prism, are not one charge items, so there is nothing to "spend," so nothing would happen to them.

Now if you are asking what happens if they are destroyed or removed (as is in the item description), what happens to them then, that I would have to leave to the powers that be, but I would anticipate they are gone.

I honestly think that those mechanics were created last year to facilitate the destruction of the Ioun Stone around Smoaks head, prior to that the only ruling was for not being able to snatch them out from around a PCs head for denial of benefit.

Of course now that there is the Necklace of Ash, the question would be what would happen to all the weapons and armors that could be destroyed by a Rust Monster attack. To be honest I do not see Jeff being the kind of DM where URs are are put in such jeapordy (but I always carry a few generic weapons around to throw as food/bribes - like what we did with a few bows when facing the harpy- which were destroyed and taken away).

Items with charges that use their last charge (so wands, a couple rings, and the Ioun Stone Violet prism), or, items that are classified as consumables (so Potions, Scrolls, Salves, food, etc.) are given to the DM who puts them in a pouch or bucket and then go to the "behind the scenes" area.

What happens after that depends on the vision of the Powers that Be. As we saw last year a vast horde had been retained to build the pile of treasure at Smoaks feet.

I know that, but to said if the Black Pearl or even the Lavender Ellipsoid were to be destroy in battle, then what happen? We still keep it and the DM mark it down on the party card as use up because in the token guide meant as surrender it if it were to be destroy completely by the monster in the room.

Thank for the reply EN 429

-Eversuede-

I'm not sure where it is recorded, but I remember this issue coming up years and years ago, with people thinking of not buying tokens and Ultra-Rares if there was a chance they would be "destroyed" and taken from the players in the Dungeon. I'm sure that at the time Jeff ruled that if a "permanent" token were destroyed in a Dungeon, the token would be unusable for the rest of the adventure, but the Player would retain the token and could use it on future Dungeons.

That doesn't count though if the Player voluntarily surrenders a permanent Token (for instance if the Player has a choice to hand the DM a token to have a certain effect on the game, like some players gave the DM tokens last year to bribe the Imp). In that case those tokens are gone.

Think of tokens in three classes:
1. Consumables - Scrolls, ammunitions, potions and the like. These are surrendered at the time of use, where ever you are (training or dungeon).

2. Creative use of tokens. If you ask the DM if you can use a token in a specific way that might "break it or use it up", or the DM indicates (as in the Harpy) you need to sacrifice items, you may have to turn those in. The DM will tell you, ahead of time, that you will loose the token, and you always will have a choice of not surrendering the token in exchange for the effect. [Player: DM, can I use my throwing dagger against the acid monster? DM: Yes you can, but if you do and successfully hit, it will destroy your throwing dagger and you will have to turn it in...]

3. Acts of nature, monster, or Jeff Martin. The module may be written in such a way that it might "destroy deactivate" certain items. For example, sonic blasts destroy crystal or glass vials (no potions), water destroys parchment (no scrolls), rust monster eats weapons and armor (nothing but leather survives), magical forces steal your Iuon stones, or you just plain wake up in a jail cell with all your equipment stacked neatly on the other side of the room and bars... All these are SPECULATIVE possibilities that could happen. In that case, however, you would not be asked to turn in tokens, you would simply not be able to use them for the rest of the room or adventure. It also would not be a whim of the DM that something like that would happen, it would be written into the module as a challenge for all parties to face, so no one would receive unfair treatment.

So to summarize, TD reserves the right (as part of the adventure) to prevent you from using a particular token [please trust we would use this very sparingly, we do not want to, as a routine activity, keep people from using tokens]. We reserve the right to barter with you during the game for uses of a token outside of the norm, that might include asking you to surrender the short sword you repeatedly stick in the lava pool to scoop out bits of lava. TD will not request you surrender any perminant token on a whim, nor will you ever be placed in a situation where you do not have a choice in the matter.

Fair enough?

Dave