TOPIC: Thoughts on Rod Segments

I have only been collecting tokens for the last year and a half, I am against token reprinting because I have worked hard to trade and collect the tokens you are talking about making suddenly easier to obtain. Although I agree, from what I have seen, segment 1 and 2 are becoming almost impossible to get. I don't know if there is going to be a winning answer to the debate, as a newer player I see how hard I've worked to get some of the tokens, and partially the luck it took to get them. It would anger a lot of people to just make them again. Making a weaker but still cool 4 or 5 piece is a very good option. I have also seen that the newer segments are far more common and less valuable then the older segments.

I'm going against the grain here. I think they should be re-printed. I know a lot of the sentiment here is ... well I had to really work for my rods ... That is more than likely true; however, you will be one of the first to get to use the completed set, maybe, several years before someone that didn't get in "on the ground floor".

It is a real dis-incentive to any "newer" token-holic, listening to everyone rave about the cool stuff they have and can't get (without paying a king's ransom).

What I would suggest is: the year after the 7th segement is produced, offer a choice to 1k+ buyers - a year 1 segment of the current Rod or the first segment of a new item. Year nine would be segment 2 of the Rod or segment 2 of the new item. Continue with the cycle ...

This would be a positive incentive (more token sales) for all. Us old-timers get their hands on a new item and the newer buyers could complete their Rod set. As an option, you could make it a requirement to have the Rod before getting the new item. (This would prop up the value of the 1st run rods but at the expense of token sales - those that still need a Rod segment could get both by doubling their order).

Jim, that is a very cogent idea. While it does give a break to new players, it still forces them to make a choice between the old item or the new one.

Great idea Jim.
This could also increase the sales from newer tokenholics. I know I would spend twice for 2 years to obtain the missing rod segments (1 and 2) along with obtaining the new item (and bask in the shower of that many rounds)

I was going to propose the same thing as Jim, but he said it perfectly. The cycle takes seven years, and still acts as an incentive to long term supporters, but also doesn't penalize someone should they become a bigger collector in say, the fourth year.

I am pro-reprints, but don't want them to occur too often. For the rod, starting over at 1 in what, 2015, will still make them rare, but still attainable for any long term collector.

Also, it was stated that the HoP and AoW were taken off the reprint table, but set item should be different - as set items get released, they should be attainable by supporting true dungeon through token sales for a few years.

With a new item, old collectors could also choose to start something new - perhaps a different eldrich item.

Good idea, Jim.

Templar wrote: I was going to propose the same thing as Jim, but he said it perfectly. The cycle takes seven years, and still acts as an incentive to long term supporters, but also doesn't penalize someone should they become a bigger collector in say, the fourth year.

I am pro-reprints, but don't want them to occur too often. For the rod, starting over at 1 in what, 2015, will still make them rare, but still attainable for any long term collector.

I'm going to have to agree with Archmage here (yes that might be shocking to some of you) on the position against reprints.

This is an especially cogent issue regarding reprints. Many times people have argued in favor of reprints with the logic that "it is now part of a set item that wasn't advertised when the token was first made available." That's what happened with Mithral Chainmail (which then exploded into the PYP from any year) that happened last year. That's what is happening with the Ring of Fire Elemental Resistance in the near future.

But this is different because it was clearly known that the Rods would be needed for a set item, straight from the start. Simply reprinting them in spite of that fact would seem to cast doubt on the "justification" used for reprinting Mithral Chain and soon the Ring of FER.

Also, it was stated that the HoP and AoW were taken off the reprint table, but set item should be different - as set items get released, they should be attainable by supporting true dungeon through token sales for a few years.

Actually, I believe it was only the HoP that was taken off the reprint table. As far as I know, the Amulet of Wonder is still potentially reprintable.

With a new item, old collectors could also choose to start something new - perhaps a different eldrich item.

Instead of rehashing older items, I think they should simply focus on making newer eldritch items.

Similarly, I support other forumites who have previously said that instead of reprinting the Dragonscale set as it is, they should instead create equivalent versions (i.e. same A.C., but damage reduction against cold or shock, instead of fire).

Creating something similar (but different) is probably better than a straight-out reprint.

I hear what you are saying about the reprint of the Rod pieces, Incognito. But I do like Jim's idea. This is an appreciation token for consistent regular big buyers. As newer big byers come in, it is really not a good appreciation token for them as it becomes a small piece of a cool item they may never be able to create. I think at the very least, there should be an alternate appreciation token that is offered. A set is only enticing if it can be made into a set a set. Do you want just a coffee table in your dining room because you missed the years in our Soviet-like 5 year plan when we did couches and chairs?

As long as new tokens are cool and usable it is fine for new players. There are plenty of tokens that I don't have that I would love to get, but each year there lots of other cool tokens that I want. I have a list of several tokens that I want to have because they are really cool but are just either too expensive or just not ever available. My answer is not to reprint them, but perhaps in time I will acuire them but if I can't then I can't. Everyone coming into a system that has older collectable items faces the same problems that we have. Magic players can't play for more then 5 minutes without hearing about the moxes or the black lotus or any of another hundred cards that have long since been out of print. However, Magic will never reprint these cards. What they will do is continue to make new sets, with cool new cards, which is what TD should continue to do. The Rod segments all have powers, which are slotless so they are all really good by themselves. Then, after this is done, there should be another cool set of items to be started then. It's not about the past, it's about the present and the future. There is a ton of talk about what people have missed out on, when really each year we get a really cool set of tokens, and I'm sure after the Rod of Seven parts is done there will be another cool reward token for ordering the larger token orders. All games move forward, we don't need reprints, we need new, innovative tokens to continue to grow the game. It is this that will truly help the game grow.

I don't think the Ro7P should be reprinted. This is mainly because the Directors have stated that it would not be. I however do think the Ro7Ps should be made available again. As the segments are turned into the full rod, why not recirculate the pieces back into the community? Make a turn in time limit of say 2 years after the last piece is printed. Year 8 put some of the Parts from turn ins back in the treasure generators. There is still a static amount of pieces around, and people like EN and Broasted who came late will have a chance to get the ones they missed.

This keeps the Ro7P collect-ability high while allowing people late to the game to have a chance to catch up. Pulling 1 of the Parts from a treasure generator may get a new buyer or two to jump aboard too.

Templar wrote: I was going to propose the same thing as Jim, but he said it perfectly. The cycle takes seven years, and still acts as an incentive to long term supporters, but also doesn't penalize someone should they become a bigger collector in say, the fourth year.

I am pro-reprints, but don't want them to occur too often. For the rod, starting over at 1 in what, 2015, will still make them rare, but still attainable for any long term collector.

Also, it was stated that the HoP and AoW were taken off the reprint table, but set item should be different - as set items get released, they should be attainable by supporting true dungeon through token sales for a few years.

With a new item, old collectors could also choose to start something new - perhaps a different eldrich item.

Good idea, Jim.

To pull on that thread a bit, what happens in 2019, when we are reprinting segment 4 of the Rod, and people that just started playing True Dungeon are complaining that they missed out on the reprints of Segments 1-3 of the Rod and that they should be reprinted again? And not only that, but that they missed out on the first few years of the new Incentive Token program, and those should be reprinted too? How can Jeff say no, if he has set a precedent by reprinting the Rod Segments for the people that missed it this time? Jeff will be locking himself into keeping these multi-year incentive tokens in print perpetually, which I don't think is good for the game.

I agree with Archmage, like any game with a collectible aspect, when someone starts playing there will be cool items that they missed (and that they have the option of obtaining on the secondary market if they choose). I think the focus should be on the present and the future. And I think Jeff was VERY smart to give each slotless Rod Segment a nice bonus of it's own, so they are valuable whether they are kept as segments or traded in for the full rod.

On the other hand - for Tokens like the Elemental Control Rings, while I hope Jeff keeps reprints to a minimum, I have no problem with Jeff reprinting those or any other regular Ultra-Rares (other than the HoP)), since he has stated that all but the HoP are fair game for reprints, and in fact he has been reprinting Ultra-Rares from year to year from the very start of the game.

I still don't find the problem with segment reprints - being on a seven year cycle indefinitely mitigates the issue because it occurs so infrequently, and even if a new item was added every seven years, we are talking about a few segments being offered on any given year (on the 21st year of the extra added tokens, we are talking about one rod segment, and two other item segments - not something that I believe to be an undue burden, considering that we have no idea how the game will evolve over that time and if an old item would even by viable).

But, *shrug* - just my opinion again.

There are a number of tokens from past years that I would love to have. However, I would never dream of suggesting that Jeff reprint them because I missed out on them for one reason or another. I think there's become this pervading idea that you have to have a bunch of super cool, uber rare items in order to have fun or defeat the dungeon. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy having those types of tokens as much as the next person. For me though success and fun in TD comes from seeing luck, intelligence, skill and teamwork in action.

Kim