TOPIC: Thoughts on Rod Segments

Before I start, I just want to say that I think the Rod of Seven Parts token program is really cool and am not in any way criticizing the planning that has gone into it. I just want share my observations and see if people are thinking along similar lines.

As of late, I've noticed a lot of people are seeking out Rod Segments 1 & 2. I did the same when I started collecting last year, and it took a lot to get mine. After reading the recent posts and reflecting on my experience I got to thinking about the distribution of the Rod Segments and I think that there will be a growing rate of disparity in Rod Segments as the years pass.

Basically, I figure that every year there are more $1K+ level buyers. Thus,every year there will be more Rod Segments produced for that year. So, if there were 50 Rod Segment 3s produced last year, there will be 75 Rod Segment 4s produced this year, and 100 Rod Segment 5s produced in 2012. While this growth means that more people will get access to Rod Segments, it also means that more folks will wind up with Segments that they can't use (at least for combo purposes) since there were a limited amount of Rod Segment 1 and 2 produced. So, in the end, the total amount of Rod of Seven Parts that can be created will be based off the number of $1K+ purchases made in 2008 (and any extra given out in things like the GT bag). (Which makes it nice for Jeff to be able to project exactly how many he needs to print.)

Inherently there isn't really a problem with this, since the Rod Segments are freebies given as a thank you to the large buyers. Additionally, they are slotless and each provide a nice in-game benefit. However, I do foresee a growing frustration as post-2008 players get into the game and realize that they will have no chance to get a complete Rod of Seven Parts. I figure that, at most, there are 2 or 3 Rod Segment 1s that may move over the next three years. Then there will be a big spike in sales/trades in 2014 when the final Segment is released.

So, in some ways, new players are being penalized for coming late to the game. At its core, this is interestingly reflective of the Rod quest in the RPG, where the low experience players are forced to overcome insurmountable odds to acquire the segments. I'm on the fence as to whether this is a positive or negative thing. The veterans do deserve to get the privileges for loyalty, but new players should also not be similarly penalized. To do so only further divides the Veteran players and the Rookie players (which will more often than not drive off new players).

So, I tried to think of ways to alleviate this situation. Reissuing Rod Segments 1 & 2 is not an optimal idea, since it would flood the market and reduce the inherent value of the completed Rod. Similarly, it would not be beneficial to allow any seven Segments to be turned in for a completed Rod, both because this deviates for the character of the Rod and it once again reduces the value of the completed Rod. But, there may be other solutions that could maintain the unique value of the completed Rod while allowing new players to benefit from their Segments.

Here are some of my ideas:

• Allow X Rod Segments to be turned in for either a PYP or random UR from those available that year. This is probably a hazardous idea, since it once again opens the floodgates on UR acquisition. But, I wanted to throw it out there.


• Allow 1 Rod Segment to be exchanged for any 1C-3C item, and 2 Rod Segments to be exchanged for any 4C item. This may be reducing the value of Rod Segments too much, but I'm not sure that 1 Segment is worth a 4C.


• Allow Rod Segments to be exchanged for 2,500 GP. I'm not certain on the GP value. But, that is about average for a low-end UR, so it seemed appropriate.


• Create lower power Rod combos (1R-4R). This is my favorite since it actually matches the way the Rod works in the adventure. In the adventure, rod pieces can be joined in smaller chunks, creating a power greater than their sum. This method essentially creates a combo item track for the Rod Segments. It would probably be best to match it to the standard Constructed item track, thus having a 1R-4R. My initial thoughts on how this could work would be 1R requires 2 Segments and additional tokens or 3 Segments, 2R requires 3 Segments and additional tokens or 4 Segments, 3R require 5 Segments, and 4R is the Rod of Seven Parts. I'll brainstorm on what these could be and post them below. I know Jeff doesn't want to commit to the final Rod of Seven Parts powers, but I'll work off the assumption that it will be at or near Artifact level power.


• Insert random Rod Segments from previous years into the Treasure Boxes. This is another weak idea, but I wanted to toss it out there. The issue that arises from this one is that since it is randomly distributed, in all likelihood it would just get resold or traded by the person who pulls it, like the random Arcane Recipe was last year.



• Allow any two Rod Segments to be traded in for one from a previous year. This has some potentially hazardous consequences, but would at least allow collectors to balance out their Rod Segments and give new collectors a chance to get in on the action.



• Create similar future incentive programs. I'm sure Jeff and crew are already far ahead of me on this one. But, after the Rod is done, more programs like it would at least give new players something to hop on-board with and give vets something to keep coming back to.

As I said, I love what the TD crew is doing with the token program, and highly enjoy the creative ways that they continually develop the TD experience, both at Gen Con and all year long. My intent is to open a dialogue on this.

You bring up some interesting issues.

When the Rod pieces first came out, I don't recall there being too much overall interest/demand to try and trade for them. Two years ago I was even offered a Rod Part 1 for an above average UR, which I didn't take (though I wish I had). They were nice, but many players just didn't seem to place too much value in them.

Last year (when I was looking for Segments 1 & 2) the demand seemed to be about the same as this year. (So I don't see a particular upsurge in demand compared to last year). In fact, I managed to win a forum auction for a Segment 2 for only about 4200 GP.

This year, it is true that Segments 1 & 2 are increasing in value. However, I would like to interject that it seems we are somewhat flooded in terms of Segments 3 & 4. Both Laszlo and Darkrose are offering multiple segments for between 2500-3000 GP, which is significantly below the value of most UR's and they're not really selling very fast either. I think that part of the reason we see less demand, is that more tokenholics are making $1K purchases (due in no small part to the great PYP choices this year), so they are able to get their own Rod piece(s).

Another minor complication is the increasing of party members from 8 to 10. For those outfitting a whole party, this means that they now have to try and come up with 2 extra sets. I know of at least one big tokenholic who originally had extra Rod pieces he was planning to trade, but that plan got pre-empted because he now has to equip 2 extra party members and needs those Rod pieces himself.

Jeff is a reasonable guy. I'm sure that if you're really desperate there are ways to get a hold of older Rod parts. Maybe that would be a potential use for a Wish Ring? Maybe he can put a Part 1 and a Part 2 up for the yearly auction? Maybe there can be an eBay auction with the proceeds going to charity?

Also, FYI, at least one Rod Segment 1 has already passed hands in the past couple of days (binia to EN 429).

I kind of like the idea of being able to turn in 5 different Rod Segments for a "Rod of Five Parts" (or maybe 4 different segments for a Rod of 4 Parts), which would be less powerful than the Rod of Seven Parts, and maybe wouldn't be an Eldritch Magic Item, but still something nice to trade in for those that don't have all seven parts.

There may be more Segment 1's come available than you think. A couple sold on Ebay a few months ago, and Binia just traded one, so there are some coming available.

I may be predicting an over conservative market on the Segment 1s. I guess I just figure that the majority of big buyers would have either traded their extras by now or would have re-purposed their extras due to the expanded party size (as Incognito pointed out). Also, I figured that big purchasers/collectors would probably want to have one of each to keep in their collections and would look to keep any remaining "extra" Segment 1s to create complete Rods to use in trades/sell on eBay. I have no idea how many Rod Segment 1s went out in 2008, so it is hard to project the market trends.

I acquired my Rod Segment 1 in a deal with Darkrose and my Rod Segment 2 in my GT trade with Gary. I'd be interested to hear how many people have on-hand and why people have been willing to give theirs up.

Well, there is some value to the bonuses from the segments themselves (I know the +1 HP from a segment was critical in getting my rogue over the instant-kill threshold from Smoak's breath), and Jeff implied in the past that some people may choose to keep the rod segments separate (leading me to think the power of the completed rod may being overestimated).

But I like your idea of the lower power Rod combos, especially if they're sequential sections!

Incognito wrote:
Also, FYI, at least one Rod Segment 1 has already passed hands in the past couple of days (binia to EN 429).

That piece was expensive but still reasonable. I myself am seeking segment 2 but the offers (the FEW offers) out there are outrageously high. I think the first two segements are the rarest anf hardest to find. Many people who have them want two- one to create the Eldritch item and then one of each. Many of the prices for segments one and two I have been qoted are comparable to the AoW. Binia was kind enough to trade hers to me but she also was looking for someone who wanted the segment, not someone who wanted to profit from the segment.
I had three Segments 3's and traded them for UR's at about 4000GP value. I did a Mithral gauntlet and a Segment 3 for an Amulet of Wonder- which was very reasonable. And I sold the other segment 3 for 3500 GP a chnk of Pearls of Prayer and some CLW scrolls.

this seems like trying to get jeff to reprint tokens..I don't think it will happen..nor do I want it to (reprint or trade etc)
I would not mind 4 segment part or 5...that would not bother me...but reprinting seg 1 or 2 would..or allowing trades of multiple other segments ...(i am not sure if that was said...the post were too long for me not to get bored reading, I have a short attention span..ohhhh..look flowers)

Well, if you did take the time to read my post, you would have seen that I explicitly said I didn't want to see a reprint. I'm not really sure why you would comment on something without reading it.

The Broasted wrote: Well, if you did take the time to read my post, you would have seen that I explicitly said I didn't want to see a reprint. I'm not really sure why you would comment on something without reading it.

just what I skimmed saying I liked the 4 or 5 part Rod..i did not want to say I was agreeing with a reprint if it was in there

EN, congrats on finally getting your Rod Segment 1. I know you've been in the market for one for a while. Also, thanks for sharing your market experiences with the Rod Segments.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: just what I skimmed saying I liked the 4 or 5 part Rod..i did not want to say I was agreeing with a reprint if it was in there

Laz, I'm interested to hear why you would be opposed to a reprint.

I'm opposed to it based off the fact that it lowers the inherent value of the complete Rod of Seven Parts. Also, from a game design perspective (and in the spirit of the game), it screws things up if everyone is walking around with one. I'd almost like to see something like a "one complete Rod of Seven Parts per party" rule, but I know that would be a customer service nightmare.

The Broasted wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: just what I skimmed saying I liked the 4 or 5 part Rod..i did not want to say I was agreeing with a reprint if it was in there

Laz, I'm interested to hear why you would be opposed to a reprint.

I'm opposed to it based off the fact that it lowers the inherent value of the complete Rod of Seven Parts. Also, from a game design perspective (and in the spirit of the game), it screws thing up if everyone is walking around with one. I'd almost like to see something like a one complete Rod of Seven Parts per party rule, but I know that would be a customer service nightmare.

I agree with the one per party (if the whole party got the effect).
I am against a reprint for the fact that when I started I had to wheel and deal to get older tokens...I don't think any should be reprinted because some people are whining...I paid my Dues they should pay theres...I am not opposed to using the wish ring to get older UR that Jeff stll has on hand.. I would like to see less Full Rods just so the Power is mighty