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TOPIC: Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate (*spoilers*)

Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate (*spoilers*) 10 years 2 months ago #1

While the token in the token guide basically says little: <br />This Ioun Stone will negate any magical bonuses to hit that an opponant may have when attacking the owner.<br /><br />What are defined as magical bonuses to hit that this thing will negate?<br />Weapon Bonuses?<br />Bonus to hit from Bless?<br />Bonus to hit from Bard Song?<br />The bonus from the Barbarian Raging?<br /><br />Bonus to hit from having a magically augmented Strength/Dexterity (meaning from potions, belts/girdles, gloves/gauntlets, the orb of Might)?<br />Bonus to hit from having a Boots of the Underdark which grant a bonus only when sneak attacking?<br />Bonus to hit from from the Crown of Might?<br /><br />Is it all of these or some of these?<br /><br />Greyseer<br />
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Re: Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate 10 years 2 months ago #2

Nevermind, my initial search-fu was weak:<br /><br />

<br />

<br />I've fallen down the rabbit hole and started thinking about game mechanics at a more detailed level then I likely have any business doing, but since I'm curious I though I would ask:<br /><br />In a re-read, I started thinking through the the black pearl ioun stone. <br /><br />The text says "..will negate any magical bonuses to hit..".  While I'm sure I won't really have any visibility to this in the dungeon, how all-encompassing is that effect?  <br /><br />Does it only negate magic that is the equivalent of directly stating "+X to hit" or would it also negate the to-hit plus bonus that came from magic items that effect other stats but that end up effecting the to-hit?<br /><br />For example, what if a monster starts out combat by drinking the equivalent of a Bulls Str or Cat's Grace.  That would magically alter their STR or DEX, and that in-turn would increase the to-hit for melee or range, so depending on how you rule lawyer it you could that to-hit nature or magical. <br /><br /><br />

<br /><br />The Pearl removes all non-natural bonuses, so any STR or DEX bonuses from potions or whatever are removed.  Only natural STR or DEX modifiers will apply.<br />

<br /><br />Boy fighting Smoak just got a lot harder.  Though I am curious does Bard Song and/or Barbarian Rage count as natural or non-natural bonuses?
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Re: Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate 10 years 2 months ago #3

Maybe I'm missing something, but I was under the assumption that the Pearl only affected your attacker and not your fellow party members.

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Re: Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate 10 years 2 months ago #4

My guess is that the bardsong +1/+1 is "natural" because this is due to an inspirational boost of confidence.  However, any bonus from a lute (such as Widseth's) would be negated because that is associated with an item.<br /><br />For the barbarian, that is an inate natural ability, thus not magical and would apply.<br /><br />All of the other cases you listed would be negated.<br /><br />==> attack ioun stone immediately !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate (SPOILER) 10 years 2 months ago #5

<br />Maybe I'm missing something, but I was under the assumption that the Pearl only affected your attacker and not your fellow party members. <br />

<br />There was a big break through in the Lore Department and destroying a Black Pearl Ioun Stone is now a top priority in fighting Smoak, otherwise you are fighting an uphill battle.  How to accomplish this and what it specifically nerfs are two key questions that need to be answered.
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Re: Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate 10 years 2 months ago #6

I also find that the fact that this Rare Token can nerf all other tokens abit disheartening - example - Boots of the Underdark, only grants its +2 to hit, when the Rogue sneak attacks the first turn, not any other turn, but the first turn only.   <br /><br />From token guide 9.0.3<br />

Boots of Underdark: Warn by the Rogue only, these enchanted boots allow the Rogue to perform his sneak attack (first round only) at plus two (+2) to hit.

  <br /><br />So congrats Rogue, your fancy boots mean nothing in the fight vs. Smoak because of the Ioun Stone: Black Pearl, you might as well wear Boots of Reflexes and hope your sub-optimal HPs will allow you to survive the breath attack.<br /><br />In short the fight with Smoak has just removed one of the key items for a Rogue, because the first turn or two (or more depending on the ruling of spells) will be spent trying to destroy that Ioun Stone.  <br /><br />One item, a rare one at that, can eliminate dozens or more UR's Rares bonuses (depending on the party).  I am thinking the currently ruling makes the item overpowered both for the PCs and NPCs.  So unless the ruling says auto-hit spells can target the Ioun Stone, we should all expect to pay a hefty price of failed survival rates because of this one item.  My preference is the stone eliminates only the magical bonus to hit a weapon can grant.  But I doubt that will happen.
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Re: Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate 10 years 2 months ago #7

<br />I also find that the fact that this Rare Token can nerf all other tokens abit disheartening - example - Boots of the Underdark, only grants its +2 to hit, when the Rogue sneak attacks the first turn, not any other turn, but the first turn only.   <br /><br />From token guide 9.0.3<br />Boots of Underdark: Warn by the Rogue only, these enchanted boots allow the Rogue to perform his sneak attack (first round only) at plus two (+2) to hit.   <br /><br />So congrats Rogue, your fancy boots mean nothing in the fight vs. Smoak because of the Ioun Stone: Black Pearl, you might as well wear Boots of Reflexes and hope your sub-optimal HPs will allow you to survive the breath attack.<br /><br />In short the fight with Smoak has just removed one of the key items for a Rogue, because the first turn or two (or more depending on the ruling of spells) will be spent trying to destroy that Ioun Stone.  <br /><br />One item, a rare one at that, can eliminate dozens or more UR's Rares bonuses (depending on the party).  I am thinking the currently ruling makes the item overpowered both for the PCs and NPCs.  So unless the ruling says auto-hit spells can target the Ioun Stone, we should all expect to pay a hefty price of failed survival rates because of this one item.  My preference is the stone eliminates only the magical bonus to hit a weapon can grant.  But I doubt that will happen.<br />

<br /><br />Couldn't you still sneak attack, just not at +2?    Or have everyone else destroy the stone before you go the first round?

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Re: Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate 10 years 2 months ago #8

I presume the Sundering Cestus lowers his AC -2 for each hit.    That is not a "to hit" bonus but a reduction in his AC right?

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Re: Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate 10 years 2 months ago #9

<br />

<br />I also find that the fact that this Rare Token can nerf all other tokens abit disheartening - example - Boots of the Underdark, only grants its +2 to hit, when the Rogue sneak attacks the first turn, not any other turn, but the first turn only.   <br /><br />From token guide 9.0.3<br />Boots of Underdark: Warn by the Rogue only, these enchanted boots allow the Rogue to perform his sneak attack (first round only) at plus two (+2) to hit.   <br /><br />So congrats Rogue, your fancy boots mean nothing in the fight vs. Smoak because of the Ioun Stone: Black Pearl, you might as well wear Boots of Reflexes and hope your sub-optimal HPs will allow you to survive the breath attack.<br /><br />In short the fight with Smoak has just removed one of the key items for a Rogue, because the first turn or two (or more depending on the ruling of spells) will be spent trying to destroy that Ioun Stone.  <br /><br />One item, a rare one at that, can eliminate dozens or more UR's Rares bonuses (depending on the party).  I am thinking the currently ruling makes the item overpowered both for the PCs and NPCs.  So unless the ruling says auto-hit spells can target the Ioun Stone, we should all expect to pay a hefty price of failed survival rates because of this one item.  My preference is the stone eliminates only the magical bonus to hit a weapon can grant.  But I doubt that will happen.<br />

<br /><br />Couldn't you still sneak attack, just not at +2?    Or have everyone else destroy the stone before you go the first round?<br />

<br /><br />The stone has 40 HP (which more than the Saytr or Harpy had on regular last year), so unless spells and scrolls can target it and do enough damage in a turn and they say that party attacks can be queued up (and not simultaneous  as it is currently- which is why they do not see who has hit or not until everyone has slid)) then no, the rogues special ability with the boots is gone.<br />
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Re: Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate 10 years 2 months ago #10

<br />I presume the Sundering Cestus lowers his AC -2 for each hit.     That is not a "to hit" bonus but a reduction in his AC right?<br />

<br />Up to a max of -6, but I believe you are correct.  Of course, if you can't hit (with the barbarian raging - he's still only +4 to hit with stats alone) it doesnt matter.
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Re: Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate 10 years 2 months ago #11

What will be the AC of the Ioun Stone, and could you lower it's AC with the Cestus and the Net?

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Re: Black Pearl, what does it specifically negate 10 years 2 months ago #12

I was a little surprised that a potion like Bull's Strength would be negated.  While the potion may and I repeat may be magical, it doesn't necessarily imply the effect (transformation) is.  Think of the strength boost as an adrenaline gain.  That would be a chemical reaction and thus not subject to negation.<br /><br />I agree with greyseer, this one token seems to be WAY overpowered if it negates basically every plus to hit.

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