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TOPIC: True Horde at Origins 2019

True Horde at Origins 2019 3 months 2 weeks ago #25

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Incognito wrote: I recall that Matthew Hayward wasn't particularly pleased to be Mazed either.


Do you bite your thumb at me, sir?

I believe you have me mistaken for someone else :)

The only True Horde I've done was the one at TDC in Walker's Bluff, and Stu was the DM for my cohort.

To my recollection, I've never been mazed in TD - dungeon, horde, or grind.


Ive been mazed in grind once: Loki had just turned into me, i looked at my spell list for SOMETHING to help my party target Loki instead of me, and as they started sliding i asked 'hey Eric, can i maze MYSELF?"...'hmm, sure, ill allow it.'

So, where on the spectum of hack-fest vs story does that kind of problem solving fall?
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True Horde at Origins 2019 3 months 2 weeks ago #26

So, I LOVE that grind allows for creative solutions and problem solving.

I think it is hilarious that when one gets mazed, they might have to fill out an actual maze.

I think Grind should have both paths.

I think the chaos of True Horde or True Raid might be too much for more than hack and slash.
First ever death in True Horde
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True Horde at Origins 2019 3 months 2 weeks ago #27

To me, it seems that this thread perfectly illustrates that what Eric said at first is likely correct, and that is that there are people that enjoy both parts - the roleplaying, AND the straight combat.

I enjoyed the RP and the open-endedness I felt when I played Grind for the first time last year. The DMs encouraged interesting ways of dealing with things, and my group was actively trying to figure out what we could do outside the box to interact with the story. The story was also so large that I remember Fiddy was still trying to figure things out and try new things and I'm pretty sure he had been doing the Grind multiple times. I absolutely loved it for those elements.

Personally I would sign up for a more RP and puzzle-y True Horde if possible. Whether that would put me in the minority or not, I can't say. I'm sure I would enjoy either way. If it's more work for Eric and crew and the number of people who want it is low, then sure scrap it, but I for one would enjoy it I feel.


Also Eric, do you release the modules for your past Grinds? I have enjoyed reading the ones that Jeff writes, and would like to see what I missed from the Grind last year.

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True Horde at Origins 2019 3 months 2 weeks ago #28

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Incognito wrote: I recall that Matthew Hayward wasn't particularly pleased to be Mazed either.


Do you bite your thumb at me, sir?

I believe you have me mistaken for someone else :)

The only True Horde I've done was the one at TDC in Walker's Bluff, and Stu was the DM for my cohort.

To my recollection, I've never been mazed in TD - dungeon, horde, or grind.


More it was me with Laz and the frustrating maze at that event, ended up getting rid of my extra True Horde ticket as i was that frustrated. What burned me about the maze was the non-interactivity of it. Non interactivity being defined as solve this or else you're done. Would've felt better if i could solve this i can be back sooner or be back in X rounds if I didn't.

Incognito: Really appreciate your honesty and solicitation of feedback. I fall primarily into the hack and slash camp but i do enjoy seeing what interesting interactions can be come up with using tokens not normally used in main dungeon or what combo can the party come up with. Not sure if that falls part into the roleplaying category or not.
We're all the kind of people who enjoy the game on a "meta" level. We like talking about the game year-round. We buy tokens. We enjoy crafting. We get together during the off-season if we can. We are a very skewed demographic that way. -Raven

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True Horde at Origins 2019 3 months 2 weeks ago #29

jedibcg wrote:

Incognito wrote:

jedibcg wrote: I really didn't like that it had to do with knowledge of DnD. I had started playing DnD and no idea what school of magic a spell was.


DnD knowledge is never required but it can often be helpful. In this case, you could always ask other people or do trial and error.

In TD and Grind, DnD knowledge, monster lore, and knowledge of mythology can often be helpful. If you know what type of monster you are facing, you know what types of attacks to expect. DnD knowledge would have helped in knowing how to deal with the Lady of Pain. Norse mythology lore (and some players did actually know quite a lot) was helpful in deal with "Loki" and Ratatoskr the squirrel.


I thought (and admit I could be remembering incorrectly) that at the time you said I could not ask anyone else about it.

Trial and error is a terrible suggestion for gameplay experience. How much fun is someone going to have taking their action to fill out paperwork again and again while combat is happening around them? Sorry but I have to strongly disagree on that suggestion. I was fine with being out of combat to deal with the maze for a few rounds but felt the paperwork in the form it took was uncalled for. Have spells not be as effective for improper paperwork would have worked much better from a gameplay experience.



The other solution (for the tokenholics) was to just use Remove Curse effects.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Incognito wrote: I recall that Matthew Hayward wasn't particularly pleased to be Mazed either.


Do you bite your thumb at me, sir?

I believe you have me mistaken for someone else :)

The only True Horde I've done was the one at TDC in Walker's Bluff, and Stu was the DM for my cohort.

To my recollection, I've never been mazed in TD - dungeon, horde, or grind.


Yes, my mistake. I was referring to Matt Humpolick ("Matt"). Toooooo many Matt's!

jpotter wrote: To me, it seems that this thread perfectly illustrates that what Eric said at first is likely correct, and that is that there are people that enjoy both parts - the roleplaying, AND the straight combat.

I enjoyed the RP and the open-endedness I felt when I played Grind for the first time last year. The DMs encouraged interesting ways of dealing with things, and my group was actively trying to figure out what we could do outside the box to interact with the story. The story was also so large that I remember Fiddy was still trying to figure things out and try new things and I'm pretty sure he had been doing the Grind multiple times. I absolutely loved it for those elements.

Personally I would sign up for a more RP and puzzle-y True Horde if possible. Whether that would put me in the minority or not, I can't say. I'm sure I would enjoy either way. If it's more work for Eric and crew and the number of people who want it is low, then sure scrap it, but I for one would enjoy it I feel.

Also Eric, do you release the modules for your past Grinds? I have enjoyed reading the ones that Jeff writes, and would like to see what I missed from the Grind last year.


To some degree, we already (have always) adapted Grind based on the players. The challenge is when the players are split (some newbies who like the RPG elements and some veterans who just want to slide). In those cases, it is harder to balance those competing needs. The best we can do is maybe have one of the DM's interact with the newbies while the other DM focuses on the sliding.

That's why I thought by labeling the Hordes story vs hack and slash, that will help segregate those with different interests, which makes it easier to offer an enjoyable experience for those groups.

In the early years, I offered to do a Grind module write-up for Jeff but it seemed like there either wasn't sufficient interest or it didn't justify the added costs (of printing out and mailing those extra modules). I'm not opposed to is, I just haven't seen a lot of interest.

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True Horde at Origins 2019 3 months 2 weeks ago #30

For Horde I'd prefer to run the Hack fest but if that got filled I'd be up for trying the Story mode. And can't wait for Grind to return!! Grind is a great place to test out all those shiny high end Tokens.
"Imagination is more important than knowledge. Knowledge is limited. Imagination encircles the world." - Albert Einstein

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True Horde at Origins 2019 3 months 2 weeks ago #31

Rob F wrote: For Horde I'd prefer to run the Hack fest but if that got filled I'd be up for trying the Story mode. And can't wait for Grind to return!! Grind is a great place to test out all those shiny high end Tokens.


When it comes to horde and grind, i will sign up for whichever time works for my schedule. Heres to hoping i enjoy whichever mode i end up playing.
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True Horde at Origins 2019 3 months 2 weeks ago #32

Incognito wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Incognito wrote:

jedibcg wrote: I really didn't like that it had to do with knowledge of DnD. I had started playing DnD and no idea what school of magic a spell was.


DnD knowledge is never required but it can often be helpful. In this case, you could always ask other people or do trial and error.

In TD and Grind, DnD knowledge, monster lore, and knowledge of mythology can often be helpful. If you know what type of monster you are facing, you know what types of attacks to expect. DnD knowledge would have helped in knowing how to deal with the Lady of Pain. Norse mythology lore (and some players did actually know quite a lot) was helpful in deal with "Loki" and Ratatoskr the squirrel.


I thought (and admit I could be remembering incorrectly) that at the time you said I could not ask anyone else about it.

Trial and error is a terrible suggestion for gameplay experience. How much fun is someone going to have taking their action to fill out paperwork again and again while combat is happening around them? Sorry but I have to strongly disagree on that suggestion. I was fine with being out of combat to deal with the maze for a few rounds but felt the paperwork in the form it took was uncalled for. Have spells not be as effective for improper paperwork would have worked much better from a gameplay experience.



The other solution (for the tokenholics) was to just use Remove Curse effects.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Incognito wrote: I recall that Matthew Hayward wasn't particularly pleased to be Mazed either.


Do you bite your thumb at me, sir?

I believe you have me mistaken for someone else :)

The only True Horde I've done was the one at TDC in Walker's Bluff, and Stu was the DM for my cohort.

To my recollection, I've never been mazed in TD - dungeon, horde, or grind.


Yes, my mistake. I was referring to Matt Humpolick ("Matt"). Toooooo many Matt's!

jpotter wrote: To me, it seems that this thread perfectly illustrates that what Eric said at first is likely correct, and that is that there are people that enjoy both parts - the roleplaying, AND the straight combat.

I enjoyed the RP and the open-endedness I felt when I played Grind for the first time last year. The DMs encouraged interesting ways of dealing with things, and my group was actively trying to figure out what we could do outside the box to interact with the story. The story was also so large that I remember Fiddy was still trying to figure things out and try new things and I'm pretty sure he had been doing the Grind multiple times. I absolutely loved it for those elements.

Personally I would sign up for a more RP and puzzle-y True Horde if possible. Whether that would put me in the minority or not, I can't say. I'm sure I would enjoy either way. If it's more work for Eric and crew and the number of people who want it is low, then sure scrap it, but I for one would enjoy it I feel.

Also Eric, do you release the modules for your past Grinds? I have enjoyed reading the ones that Jeff writes, and would like to see what I missed from the Grind last year.


To some degree, we already (have always) adapted Grind based on the players. The challenge is when the players are split (some newbies who like the RPG elements and some veterans who just want to slide). In those cases, it is harder to balance those competing needs. The best we can do is maybe have one of the DM's interact with the newbies while the other DM focuses on the sliding.

That's why I thought by labeling the Hordes story vs hack and slash, that will help segregate those with different interests, which makes it easier to offer an enjoyable experience for those groups.

In the early years, I offered to do a Grind module write-up for Jeff but it seemed like there either wasn't sufficient interest or it didn't justify the added costs (of printing out and mailing those extra modules). I'm not opposed to is, I just haven't seen a lot of interest.


I would love to see write ups on the grind modules, you always put so much work into them I think it would be interesting to see especially if you could include some of the art/story stuff. That's the one part I've always been sad is missing from TD modules.
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True Horde at Origins 2019 3 months 2 weeks ago #33

Love the idea of two versions of Grind! I will play both as I enjoy both elements!

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True Horde at Origins 2019 3 months 2 weeks ago #34

We've learned from past experience that designating runs in advance is... a distinction not always observed by players. (#understatement) Is there a reason why the Horde/Grind modes can't be adjusted on a per party bases? I'm imagining a poll during the coaching session. Make a note on the party card indicating their choice and fit that play style accordingly. In the module, you could have tags indicating that suchandsuch mechanic should only be employed if the party is playing on Story Mode.
Have you looked it up in the TDb ?
Please post TDb corrections/suggestions in this thread .
If I write something in teal, it should not be taken seriously.

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True Horde at Origins 2019 3 months 2 weeks ago #35

Druegar wrote: We've learned from past experience that designating runs in advance is... a distinction not always observed by players. (#understatement) Is there a reason why the Horde/Grind modes can't be adjusted on a per party bases? I'm imagining a poll during the coaching session. Make a note on the party card indicating their choice and fit that play style accordingly. In the module, you could have tags indicating that suchandsuch mechanic should only be employed if the party is playing on Story Mode.


you dont mean a party of newbies in the old days would sign up for a nightmare run...
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True Horde at Origins 2019 3 months 1 week ago #36

Druegar wrote: We've learned from past experience that designating runs in advance is... a distinction not always observed by players. (#understatement) Is there a reason why the Horde/Grind modes can't be adjusted on a per party bases? I'm imagining a poll during the coaching session. Make a note on the party card indicating their choice and fit that play style accordingly. In the module, you could have tags indicating that suchandsuch mechanic should only be employed if the party is playing on Story Mode.


Probably lots of work to prepare for "story mode" if it ends up not getting run at the event.

Aren't Horde signups and attendees a pretty unique group? I've only been to one, but everyone there got their ticket through a Patron early registration. If you just randomly show up to horde I think you're going to have a bad time - regardless of which scenario you selected.

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