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TOPIC: Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion

Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion 8 months 1 week ago #13

Brad Mortensen wrote: It would nerf Tulz, Things of Retrieval, and Shield of the Scholar, just to make a few.

Parchment is already the most expensive Tier 1 Trade token, and Ink isn’t far behind. This would make them even rarer.


Most players on Normal/non Lethal will not have any of those.
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Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion 8 months 1 week ago #14

Harlax wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: It would nerf Tulz, Things of Retrieval, and Shield of the Scholar, just to make a few.

Parchment is already the most expensive Tier 1 Trade token, and Ink isn’t far behind. This would make them even rarer.


Most players on Normal/non Lethal will not have any of those.


Today, that’s true. But Retrieval was only rare when they were in print.

We just got off the chargeless-wand car of the Power Creep Train, and it feels like we’re jumping onto another one. Unless it’s strictly limited somehow, like requiring a token or limiting to commons or normal/non lethal, I think it’ll get rolled back after a year, too.
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Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion 8 months 1 week ago #15

The problem with the wands from my perspective is it was converting a consumable into a non-consumable.

If it isn't too confusing I'm fine limiting this feature to non-lethal and normal difficulties.

Perhaps even better is to limit it to common tokens. So you can drink one common potion or cast a common scroll. I don't see that contributing much to power creep at the high end.
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Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion 8 months 1 week ago #16

Endgame wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: Another option would be to create some uncommon/rare tokens in the future that allow more creative play, such as:

  • Cast 2 or 3 non-offensive non-healing spells as a single action
  • As a standard action, drink 2 or 3 potions (perhaps requiring different types, so one healing, one stat boost, etc)

Even on our hardcore sealed pack run I kept out some tokens that I thought might come in handy but then never could afford to sacrifice my whole action to use them.

In other words, why have tokens in 10-packs that are effectively unusable by both new players and by sealed pack runners? Other than the obvious GP but at least that has a specific purpose for transmuting.

I would suggest using uncommon charms / ioun stones for some of these abilities, as new players have these slots available very frequently. I find if you're sticking to red or less for builds, like most of my group, I still have problems filling charm and ioun stone slots.

Ex:
Imbibing charm. Uncommon. May drink a non-healing potion as a free action 1/ room.

Ioun Stone of the Norns. Uncommon. May cast a level 0 or level 1 spell as a free action. This spell cannot deal damage or heal. 1 / room.


I'm just not crazy about the mechanic of having to have one token to use another.
That being said, I do believe there should be some mechanic for allowing some support spells/potions/scrolls to be utilized. I started another thread (a while ago) asking if anyone who plays wizard ever cast the cat's grace spell. Although there were a few instances, by and large, most do not use it except as a no-brainer when using the charm of spell swapping which seems like a waste to me but......
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Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion 8 months 1 week ago #17

Harlax wrote: Give players a prep round at Normal and Non Lethal.

It's a mechanic that has been used before and we know how it works.


I would support this.
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Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion 8 months 1 week ago #18

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: It would nerf Tulz, Things of Retrieval, and Shield of the Scholar, just to make a few.

Parchment is already the most expensive Tier 1 Trade token, and Ink isn’t far behind. This would make them even rarer.


Most players on Normal/non Lethal will not have any of those.


Today, that’s true. But Retrieval was only rare when they were in print.

We just got off the chargeless-wand car of the Power Creep Train, and it feels like we’re jumping onto another one. Unless it’s strictly limited somehow, like requiring a token or limiting to commons or normal/non lethal, I think it’ll get rolled back after a year, too.


Agreed, I'd hold off on this at least until the pouch is out of print. About the most I'd do personally would be specific encounters where the party can prep for an extra round if they dont attack, or maybe the party always wins initiative on nonlethal.
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Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion 8 months 6 days ago #19

Bob Chasan wrote:

Harlax wrote: Give players a prep round at Normal and Non Lethal.

It's a mechanic that has been used before and we know how it works.


I would support this.


I'd be a little concerned that this would have the opposite of the intended effect.

For new / uncorrdinated groups the fiddling around, digging out of pockets, getting rules clarifications from the DM etc. seem to me much more likely to result in a failed combat and party push damage than the opposite.

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Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion 8 months 6 days ago #20

One good way to implement this that would also chip away at melee supremacy would be to do this once or twice a dungeon:

1. Monster starts at range only - in round 1 you can do a ranged attack, or anything else other than a melee attack.

2. Starting round 2, the monster has closed to melee range and you can do whatever.

This would kill a few birds with one stone, it would buff ranged relative to melee, and it would give melee players a reason to use consumables.

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Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion 8 months 6 days ago #21

Matthew Hayward wrote: One good way to implement this that would also chip away at melee supremacy would be to do this once or twice a dungeon:

1. Monster starts at range only - in round 1 you can do a ranged attack, or anything else other than a melee attack.

2. Starting round 2, the monster has closed to melee range and you can do whatever.

This would kill a few birds with one stone, it would buff ranged relative to melee, and it would give melee players a reason to use consumables.


We had several rooms this year that seemed to fit that description: Ogre mage (or whatever he was), ice gnome, sleeping giants
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Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion 8 months 6 days ago #22

Bob Chasan wrote:

Harlax wrote: Give players a prep round at Normal and Non Lethal.

It's a mechanic that has been used before and we know how it works.


I would support this.

I concur this would be a good intermediate approach because it can be written in the module and easily retracted if it caused an issue.

Ed
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Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion 8 months 6 days ago #23

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: One good way to implement this that would also chip away at melee supremacy would be to do this once or twice a dungeon:

1. Monster starts at range only - in round 1 you can do a ranged attack, or anything else other than a melee attack.

2. Starting round 2, the monster has closed to melee range and you can do whatever.

This would kill a few birds with one stone, it would buff ranged relative to melee, and it would give melee players a reason to use consumables.


We had several rooms this year that seemed to fit that description: Ogre mage (or whatever he was), ice gnome, sleeping giants


Minor difference: in the rooms this year the melee players had to spend a round closing range - so there was no opportunity for them to use a consumable without losing a round of sliding (they would have had to spend the second round closing to melee had they buffed in the first round).

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Consumable Token Idea/Suggestion 8 months 6 days ago #24

Pants of retrieval did not help your challenge run, but they did open up potions when a new pant slot opened up. Maybe gloves of quick fingers or lenses of large letters for scroll use?
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