TOPIC: QTR 2025 Beta 4 (with recipes)

Rob F wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Rob F wrote: Safehold 1&2 are way too light. 25% of what they should be.

What possible benefit would that have? They don't do anything, and if you price them too high it makes it an easy decision to just skip both the safeholds and the enabled lackies. As you've said in the past, there is really no reason to play with more than a rare build, so why would more than 1-3 people pay $16,000+ for a SH I?

I'd argue it's likely better to lower the cost of the Safeholds and add some cost to various lackies so you can get people in the door, and then get them to spend some TG to get, say, grunnel.

You don't even need a Rare build to play TD. You don't need Tokens, play with the 10 pack you get. Get people in the door? Solved. Safehold V. Safehold 1&2 are not for new players. Rewards program is what this whole thing is. I understand today's culture is all about instant gratification and everyone feels entitled to everything. Sad. Sad it is. Back in the day not everyone had a Castle, they were far and few between. But there is no right or wrong recipe costs. The only thing Jeff has to ask himself is how soon does he want to have to come up with a Safehold 2.0 program. That's it, that's the only thing when it comes to the top tier recipes. Increasing reciepe costs gives Jeff more time before he has to do something like this again....and it also prevents everyone from having a Castle.

Rob, that is my concern about the costs also. I thought the intention was for even the biggest token buyers to find getting Safehold II and I and their assorted tokens to be a challenge. If they can both be knocked out pretty easily by bigger token buyers in one year, it really isn't acting as much of a token sink for the bigger token buyers, and we'll have to move to the next higher difficulty level soon.

Safehold V is accessible by nearly everyone, it should get more difficult as we go up the chain, so that far fewer people will have Safehold I than have Legendary tokens. Safehold I shouldn't be for everyone - it definitely isn't within my TD budget, and I'm OK with that.

Here's a thread where the chart was referenced, but again, the original document has probably since been updated. Was it a placeholder? Maybe. I fully acknowledge that it was a preliminary estimate and totally subject to change.

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=710&id=256282

I found threads to the original Safehold PDF files, but the files themselves are no longer available when you click on the links. Again, this was certainly in an earlier Safehold Program Details file. It was the only time cost estimates were documented. No update to the original chart was ever published.

Edit: This thread also has people referencing the chart, but the file is no longer available.
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=710&id=256033

Dave wrote: Here's a thread where the chart was referenced, but again, the original document has probably since been updated. Was it a placeholder? Maybe. I fully acknowledge that it was a preliminary estimate and totally subject to change.

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=710&id=256282

I found threads to the original Safehold PDF files, but the files themselves are no longer available when you click on the links. Again, this was certainly in an earlier Safehold Program Details file. It was the only time cost estimates were documented. No update to the original chart was ever published.

Edit: This thread also has people referencing the chart, but the file is no longer available.
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=710&id=256033

The text on that thread does say that the costs beyond Safehold V would be discussed at a later date, so it does seem like just a placeholder beyond Safehold V.

I saved the file back then. Attached it.



Edit: only posting because people asked, not because I expect it to be followed

Appreciate you saving and sharing. It refers to the chart as projected costs that are subject to change. I always anticipated they would change. Just wasn't sure it would be 100% to 200%.

Why is the alphabetical listing of tokens broken up by the images of URs, et al?

Orb of Annihilation and Ring of Psychic Mastery have a paradigm for relics based off of completion tokens.

Bead of Asgard and Bifrost Charm follow a different paradigm, yet in no way are less powerful than the 2024 tokens. The TG requirements should be the 2x, 1x GF, 2000gp or higher based off of inflation.

Proposals for 3*/4* recipes:
+1 Archer's Buckler
Archer's Buckler
2x EM
2x MH
2x OE

Bracers of Carnage
Sea Raider Bracers
1x DP
1x DS
1x EB
Choice: Dire Viper Venom, Dune Beast Tooth, 1000gp

Crown of the Tavern
as is

Earcuff of Thor's Bliss
50GP Rune Earcuff
Choice: Djinni Blood, Dust Devil Sand, 1000gp

Eldritch Runestone
maybe fine as is

Ring of the Dire Ram
Ring of the Stag
1000gp
1x DS
3x PS

Shirt of Modest Luck
1x AG
2x DP
1x MH
5x MS
1x OE
2x PS

Spirit Pet Bliss Squirrel
Trinket of the Dire Bear
1x AG
1x EB
1x OE
Choice: Mummy's Heart, Tomb Wraith Dust, 1000gp

Fits better my sense of thematics. Try to create more sinks for TG2.

If we take "the chart" seriously, sure, SH1 is over.

Sidekicks, though, are under.

Could about halve SH1 but should double sidekicks.

If we take "the chart" seriously.

Marc D wrote: Earcuff of Thor's Bliss seems to be the only recipe that allows 1,000 GP in "loose change". Is that intentional?

Yes. It's following the precedent set by Chalice of Chugging.

We like it when we can have a transmuted token that a new player can make at an in-person convention without having to first make any trade goods.

Druegar wrote:

Marc D wrote: Earcuff of Thor's Bliss seems to be the only recipe that allows 1,000 GP in "loose change". Is that intentional?

Yes. It's following the precedent set by Chalice of Chugging.

We like it when we can have a transmuted token that a new player can make at an in-person convention without having to first make any trade goods.

Thanks as always for the responses and sharing!

Ian Lee wrote: Why is the alphabetical listing of tokens broken up by the images of URs, et al?

It's a centerfold. We did this on the first/last year's Mini QTR as well.

Not sure how many people reading this know what a centerfold is, but if you don't, ask your dad. 😉

Druegar wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: It's a centerfold.

Not sure how many people reading this know what a centerfold is, but if you don't, ask your dad. 😉

Druegar wrote:

Ian Lee wrote: Why is the alphabetical listing of tokens broken up by the images of URs, et al?

It's a centerfold. We did this on the first/last year's Mini QTR as well.

Not sure how many people reading this know what a centerfold is, but if you don't, ask your dad. 😉

Something from the J. Geils Band?