TOPIC: 2025 Rare Tokens to Printer

We sincerely appreciate all your input. However, the development period has concluded. These are the 2025 Rare tokens.

Thanks! I see the Trinket was severely nerfed, that's disappointing. I don't understand why it had to have the damage wheel significantly reduced and also make once per game. I'd have thought either of those would have sufficed.

Since it says 1/game, does that mean that if you polymorph into a troll and then polymorph out of it, you can't polymorph back into it in the same room?

Yikes. The trinket should have just been made a polymorph potion if this was the direction it was going to go.

I know it is too late, but the trinket should have had an interesting special ability if this was going to be the damage wheel.

This game needs interesting tokens to be excited about and the trinket certainly is not one of those.

Trinket of Dire Bear: ~7 damage
Similar tokens include:

Note that compared to Potions, Trinkets cannot be used by Elves or Wizards, but do not cost a Free Action to retrieve or a Standard Action to consume and are not turned in on use.

For a brief moment, pretend that the Trinket of Trollform never existed, and that the Trinket of Dire Bear was the very first Trinket ever printed. Would you be happy with it? It's the exact same damage wheel (not just average damage, but distribution as well) as a Potion Polymorph (Bear), but you do not need to turn it in or spend Actions to activate. And as with the Potion, you can bring a small stack of Trinkets along, and use one (or more) in each combat.

If you're unhappy with it (again, pretending it was the very first Trinket; that we had not seen any precedent before), why? What would you want it do, beyond being literally the same (for a Druid, at least; sorry Wizards) an existing token, but be cheaper both in-game and in real life to use?

I would not be happy with it, regardless of if Trollform had been printed.

These rare items fill the gap up that other classes utilize cheap UR weapons for.

If you are going to collect 5-7 of these so you can play a combat heavy VTD each one should be worth more than an average of 7 damage.

Collecting trinkets should be measurable better than collecting mystic staves that do damage at range. Otherwise what is the point of dealing with the consequences of fighting up close? Would you rather have a Staff of the Ancients or a collection of these? (Which can be had as a PYP for $50)

To add insult to injury it doesn’t even have a special ability like many of the more recent polymorph potions had.

Part of my disappointment is this in conjunction of what was shown on the revamped Druid card. The revamped Druid card was a step back for polymorph abilities and now we see a step back in items as well.

I see no clear direction for the Druid from the TD staff that gets me excited for the future of the class. Compare this to what they teased with all of the Cleric buffs.

OrionW wrote: I would not be happy with it, regardless of if Trollform had been printed.

These rare items fill the gap up that other classes utilize cheap UR weapons for.

If you are going to collect 5-7 of these so you can play a combat heavy VTD each one should be worth more than an average of 7 damage.

Collecting trinkets should be measurable better than collecting mystic staves that do damage at range. Otherwise what is the point of dealing with the consequences of fighting up close? Would you rather have a Staff of the Ancients or a collection of these? (Which can be had as a PYP for $50)

To add insult to injury it doesn’t even have a special ability like many of the more recent polymorph potions had.

Part of my disappointment is this in conjunction of what was shown on the revamped Druid card. The revamped Druid card was a step back for polymorph abilities and now we see a step back in items as well.

It is disappointing to see Polymorph switched to Druid only going forward but then nerfed to the point where it's hardly worth doing.

Given that this is now 1/game, like Trollform, I won't be surprised if we're no longer allowed to bring a stack of them into the Dungeon. The 1/game restriction doesn't make much sense if you can have a stack of 20 to cycle through.

I would have thought having the Highest damage rare weapon (Trinket Troll) and 3rd highest damage rare weapon (trinket bear) would be a major draw. +1 Heavy Claymore is in 2, and it's 2H and fairly class limited. Most classes have to settle with rare weapons between 5.5 and 6.5 damage best case (quite a few weapons are sub 5).

Endgame wrote: I would have thought having the Highest damage rare weapon (Trinket Troll) and 3rd highest damage rare weapon (trinket bear) would be a major draw. +1 Heavy Claymore is in 2, and it's 2H and fairly class limited. Most classes have to settle with rare weapons between 5.5 and 6.5 damage best case (quite a few weapons are sub 5).

Most classes also have UR, Relic, and Legendary weapons to choose from as well. There has never been a Polymorph Potion or Trinket above the Rare level. I doubt most people playing combat classes on the forums would be happy if they were restricted to rare weapons.

There are a couple of UR tokens as well as the class Relic and Legendary that enable Polymorph, but they are underwhelming.

Rare weapons also aren't limited to once per game, like these are.

Also, if a Druid were using a Rare weapon, they would also be able to cast spells, read scrolls, etc. Using the Trinket sacrifices the ability to cast spells and read scrolls, and if they polymorph out of the form to cast a spell or read a scroll, they cannot polymorph back into the form afterwards. Having a very slightly higher damage wheel, with no special abillities from the polymorphed form, does not seem worth losing the ability to also cast spells or read scrolls. I think a Druid is much better off just using a Rare weapon than using this Trinket.

??

Trinkets aren't weapons. You can run your legendary weapon if you want with a trinket.

Reason we don't get more UR+ consumables - potions, scrolls - is because that appeals to very few players and can make an uneducated player very annoyed if used without knowing how scarce they are. Special has ... special ... rules. Same with Eldritch Runestone.

Ian Lee wrote: ??

Trinkets aren't weapons. You can run your legendary weapon if you want with a trinket.

Reason we don't get more UR+ consumables - potions, scrolls - is because that appeals to very few players and can make an uneducated player very annoyed if used without knowing how scarce they are. Special has ... special ... rules. Same with Eldritch Runestone.

If you are polymorphed via a Trinket, you are sliding the trinket and not whatever weapon you were wielding prior to polymorph.

Trinkets are not consumable, there is no reason one couldn't be UR or higher. Prior to Trinkets, I had been advocating every year for a transmuted Polymorph token that was more powerful than a Rare Polymorph token, so that nobody would get "stuck" with it that didn't want it but those that did want it could get it. We never got one.

Mike Steele wrote: Most classes also have UR, Relic, and Legendary weapons to choose from as well. There has never been a Polymorph Potion or Trinket above the Rare level. I doubt most people playing combat classes on the forums would be happy if they were restricted to rare weapons.

Base Trinket Trollform is 8 average damage as well as the +hit from your weapon and any focus bonus from your weapon. In other words and in most cases, the trinket is a damage wheel upgrade +focus modifier for your equipped weapon.

When equipping a +2 baton of focus (the actual weapon), the Trinket's effective +hit is +2, and the damage wheel is effectively 5-7-9-11-13-15. At an average of 10 damage, the trinket is the second highest damage Ur weapon (ahead of +2 death cleaver, and behind +2 savage sword).

When equipping a +3 baton of focus, the Trinket's effective +hit is +3, and the damage wheel is effectively 6-8-10-12-14-16. At an average of 11 damage, the trinket is the third highest damage Relic weapon (ahead of the +3 deathcleaver, and behind a +3 Baton of Focus modified Greater Shaman Necklace and +3 savage sword).

When equipping Drue's +5 Baton of Focus, the Trinket's effective +hit is +5, and the damage wheel is effectively 8-10-12-14-16-18. At an average of 13 damage, the trinket is the third highest damage Legendary weapon (ahead of Averon's deathcleaver, and behind modified Iktomi's and Kilgore's).

Mike Steele wrote: Rare weapons also aren't limited to once per game, like these are.

Not very relevant when each trinket seen so far is higher damage than the highest damage 1H weapon (bliss heavy axe). Spending $4 on trinkets is basically meaningless overall.

Mike Steele wrote: Also, if a Druid were using a Rare weapon, they would also be able to cast spells, read scrolls, etc. Using the Trinket sacrifices the ability to cast spells and read scrolls, and if they polymorph out of the form to cast a spell or read a scroll, they cannot polymorph back into the form afterwards. Having a very slightly higher damage wheel, with no special abillities from the polymorphed form, does not seem worth losing the ability to also cast spells or read scrolls. I think a Druid is much better off just using a Rare weapon than using this Trinket.

Per the FAQ thread, you can go in and out of the trinket form as many times as you like in a room . So you can cast and read whatever you like.
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=737&id=257330&start=0

Also note that combat focused classes like Fighters, Barbarian, Paladin, etc, also can't cast spells or read scrolls. Given the Jack of All Trades nature of Druid, we would expect these classes to have higher damage weapons than the class that does everything.

Endgame wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Most classes also have UR, Relic, and Legendary weapons to choose from as well. There has never been a Polymorph Potion or Trinket above the Rare level. I doubt most people playing combat classes on the forums would be happy if they were restricted to rare weapons.

Base Trinket Trollform is 8 average damage as well as the +hit from your weapon and any focus bonus from your weapon. In other words and in most cases, the trinket is a damage wheel upgrade +focus modifier for your equipped weapon.

When equipping a +2 baton of focus (the actual weapon), the Trinket's effective +hit is +2, and the damage wheel is effectively 5-7-9-11-13-15. At an average of 10 damage, the trinket is the second highest damage Ur weapon (ahead of +2 death cleaver, and behind +2 savage sword).

When equipping a +3 baton of focus, the Trinket's effective +hit is +3, and the damage wheel is effectively 6-8-10-12-14-16. At an average of 11 damage, the trinket is the third highest damage Relic weapon (ahead of the +3 deathcleaver, and behind a +3 Baton of Focus modified Greater Shaman Necklace and +3 savage sword).

When equipping Drue's +5 Baton of Focus, the Trinket's effective +hit is +5, and the damage wheel is effectively 8-10-12-14-16-18. At an average of 13 damage, the trinket is the third highest damage Legendary weapon (ahead of Averon's deathcleaver, and behind modified Iktomi's and Kilgore's).

Mike Steele wrote: Rare weapons also aren't limited to once per game, like these are.

Not very relevant when each trinket seen so far is higher damage than the highest damage 1H weapon (bliss heavy axe). Spending $4 on trinkets is basically meaningless overall.

Mike Steele wrote: Also, if a Druid were using a Rare weapon, they would also be able to cast spells, read scrolls, etc. Using the Trinket sacrifices the ability to cast spells and read scrolls, and if they polymorph out of the form to cast a spell or read a scroll, they cannot polymorph back into the form afterwards. Having a very slightly higher damage wheel, with no special abillities from the polymorphed form, does not seem worth losing the ability to also cast spells or read scrolls. I think a Druid is much better off just using a Rare weapon than using this Trinket.

Per the FAQ thread, you can go in and out of the trinket form as many times as you like in a room . So you can cast and read whatever you like.
truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&defaultmenu=141&catid=737&id=257330&start=0

Also note that combat focused classes like Fighters, Barbarian, Paladin, etc, also can't cast spells or read scrolls. Given the Jack of All Trades nature of Druid, we would expect these classes to have higher damage weapons than the class that does everything.

Calculating an "effective" damage wheel for Druids seems pretty meaningless when you aren't doing the same for other classes. Other classes have tokens and abilities that increase damage should result in an increased "effective damage wheel" for those classes as well, using your logic.

I think the FAQ on trinkets was written before the change to this trinket changing it to once per game. Hopefully I'm wrong, but I suspect the ability to polymorph in and out of the form any number of times in a room will no longer be allowed.

Druegar said these designs are locked in, so debating it now seems pretty fruitless. I see Druids as better off just using a Rare weapon than using this Trinket as it has been nerfed so much that it's not worth using. I understand you see it very differently.