TOPIC: 2025 Ultra Rare Tokens

Ultra Rare

The UR for Dwarves is underwhelming. Allowing a second taunt is already an uncommon token in two different ways (one to allow taunting 2 targets at once and one to taunt a second time (but are then stunned).) This doesn't feel like UR level power.

How about Taunted target may ONLY attack the dwarf fighter - area effect attacks impact just the dwarf but for x2 damage?
Alternatively, all taunts also enrage the target making them -2 to AC for the remainder of combat. This would function for every taunt in all rooms.

I preferred the shield of guarding allowing an extra guard - paladins can already have ACs far higher than can be hit. As written, this is unclear if the paladin negates damage on the paladin or on anyone in the party being hit? Wouldn't people who are guarded already have the attack redirected back to the paladin?

Another idea is to give this an aura effect for the party. +1 to saves for the party while guarding - a bit like a holy aura.

It is unclear how Thor's mug would apply to monks? Rangers can't use it but it looks like Monks can. There is no damage wheel so that's confusing. Perhaps exclude monks as well?

Fred

Thanks!! Here are some comments, mainly on some of the pretty big changes!

Amulet of FolkVangr: This is superior to the tribute token Stu-Pendous Pendant. Perhaps +2 St and +4 Dex would better, that would be equivalent to Stu-Penduos Pendant.

Charm of Echoed Taunts: This seems more balanced - is it strong enough for a UR slot though?

Charm of the Hedgehog: I'm glad the damage was lowered a bit.

Death Knight Helm: I'm glad it's limited to the standard tank classes now.

Holy Symbol of Thor: I think it was much better when it did 2x Undead Damage, since the Holy Symbol of Pelor is so hard to buy now. Why not change it to just a functional reprint of Pelor and have it do 2x damage to undead with no other effects, if those effects proved problematic. I think that would be much better for Clerics than a damage bonus holy symbol. Personally, I still loved the original version that did 3x damage on a natural 20 slide.

Nightshade's Grim Gloves: This finally feels balanced and not overpowered.

Picc's Grindstone: On further reflection, +2 does seem too high for all melee and ranged attacks for a slotless token. I'd recommend changing to +1 and slotless - that will still make it one of the most in-demand URs. As I mentioned in another thread, you could then do a +2 Relic version named Picc's Epic Grindstone.

Amulet of Folkvangr

Stu-pendous already exists and, while no longer one of the best tokens in the game like it was, still has uses.

If going to get serious about Int/Wis/Cha mattering, it would make sense to have a neck UR that was like +4 INT/+3 WIS. That would involve a name change from Folkvangr, of course.

Picc's Grindstone

That Enchanter's Whetstone applies only to rares is an essential aspect of that token. It basically turn a rare into an UR, which has been shown to be problematic as it means UR weapons need to get better. That EW doesn't affect the role of relics and legendaries is an important limit to its power.

Gregor's Tome of Focus is desirable in every spellcaster build. Grindstone is an auto-include in every single build. Slotless should not be the place to put effects that are as impactful as this, as it undermines the importance of slots. The game certainly doesn't need more damage output.

Amulet of Folkavngr: Technically creep when compared to Stu-pendous Pendant, but also given other items such as Medallion of Sweet Woods, and Medallion of Valhalla, I think this keeps consistent with the recent years of what stats in necklace should be. Creep occurred, but it occurred years ago and this is now and adjustment to a past token. Looks good to me, since we can't reverse creep at this point.

Charm of Echoed Taunts: I personally thought Charm of Critical Taunts was much much cooler. Sad to see it go. I did not think the damage buff achieved by it was overpowered in any way (we're talking about 2%ish of damage boost for the dungeon). This feels like a rare power given tokendb.com/token/abyssal-lenses-of-taunting/ is a uncommon token. I'd say consider 1/extra taunt per combat? Which I think is probably fine now, but maybe too good depending on how class design goes.

Charm of the Hedgehog: Looks perfect and ready to print

Holy Symbol of Thor: I think this is a perfectly balanced token, I also think we have far too many damage charms this year and personally preferred its previous iterations. So I am not personally excited for it, but I'll leave it for the Clerics to talk about from here.

Picc's Grindstone: I personally believe this token is on par with most slots (ring, charm, runestone) triply so for slotless. It was a bit better on the runestone slot. I am pretty anti-slotless stat boosts since that just becomes and assumed creep in game design which I don't find personally fun. If it's must be slotless consider reducing to +1

Shield of Guarding: Looks ready to print to me. I preferred previous abilities, but I think this one is still pretty cool.

Thor's Mug of Melee: I think this is too strong personally. I'd suggest +2 Damage, 1/game drink a potion without turning it in (uncommon or lower).
If it must be these stats, please consider removing monk, as I think it is unclear how this works with flurry of blows.

Amulet of Folkvangr
Love to see this come out and it gives something to anchor legendary rebalancing on. I would recommend swapping str and dex (go to +4 str and +3 dex). If the the stat changes go through 1 dex will be worth more than 1 str because of the impact on saves and AC. As for the comp with Stu-pendous Pendant this should be a little better, as the old token came out a decade ago.

Holy Symbol of Thor
I would make this +2 shock damage and not limit it. With class cards coming out Spiritual Hammer might get some love, or maybe it won't, but either way limiting it for clerics seems unnecessary.

Earcuff of Cabal
The language is much cleaner and easier to understand.

Death Knight Helm
This is still at relic level, but still okay as long as we acknowledge that the slot budget has changed. Also taking Barbarian off of it will increase the need for another melee head slot item in the next few years, but that is okay as it gives a clear path for another token in the next few years.

Coin of Temptation
If Rogues are going to see a slight decrease in damage during the class rebalance process, I don't like this as a slotless item. There should be some cost to equipping it. I would put it in the charm slot.

Overall I like were the tokens are and I think they are all pretty intuitive in how they work which is a good thing.

Fred K wrote: It is unclear how Thor's mug would apply to monks? Rangers can't use it but it looks like Monks can. There is no damage wheel so that's confusing. Perhaps exclude monks as well?

I believe unlike Rangers, Monks don't have to slide two pucks. They usually to, but it is not required.

Impy wrote: Picc's Grindstone: I personally believe this token is on par with most slots (ring, charm, runestone) triply so for slotless. It was a bit better on the runestone slot. I am pretty anti-slotless stat boosts since that just becomes and assumed creep in game design which I don't find personally fun. If it's must be slotless consider reducing to +1

I agree completely, so have a +1.

My additional commentary
I believe Picc's Grindstone is dramatically more balanced as a runestone - by being a reusable runestone it still uses a slot that I could have been burning a consumable rare every run for +1 damage. So, basically, by buying a UR I would save myself the hassle of using consumables and I'd gain 1 extra damage over a rare.

Impy wrote: Thor's Mug of Melee: I think this is too strong personally. I'd suggest +2 Damage, 1/game drink a potion without turning it in (uncommon or lower).
If it must be these stats, please consider removing monk, as I think it is unclear how this works with flurry of blows.

+1

My additional commentary
Drop Thor's to +2 damage and add a potion drinking kicker to it (It's a mug, it should have some kind of synergy with drinking). Some options would be:

1) Drink a potion as an instant action 1/game (previously seen as a wonder effect)
2) Drink a common or uncommon potion without turning it in 1/game
3) Heal some amount of damage when drinking a potion

Endgame wrote:

Impy wrote: Picc's Grindstone: I personally believe this token is on par with most slots (ring, charm, runestone) triply so for slotless. It was a bit better on the runestone slot. I am pretty anti-slotless stat boosts since that just becomes and assumed creep in game design which I don't find personally fun. If it's must be slotless consider reducing to +1

I agree completely, so have a +1.

My additional commentary
I believe Picc's Grindstone is dramatically more balanced as a runestone - by being a reusable runestone it still uses a slot that I could have been burning a consumable rare every run for +1 damage. So, basically, by buying a UR I would save myself the hassle of using consumables and I'd gain 1 extra damage over a rare.

Impy wrote: Thor's Mug of Melee: I think this is too strong personally. I'd suggest +2 Damage, 1/game drink a potion without turning it in (uncommon or lower).
If it must be these stats, please consider removing monk, as I think it is unclear how this works with flurry of blows.

+1

My additional commentary
Drop Thor's to +2 damage and add a potion drinking kicker to it (It's a mug, it should have some kind of synergy with drinking). Some options would be:

1) Drink a potion as an instant action 1/game (previously seen as a wonder effect)
2) Drink a common or uncommon potion without turning it in 1/game
3) Heal some amount of damage when drinking a potion

Is trivializing healing more really the direction we want to go with this token? Asking for the healers in the group.

This offers a path for folks that don't want to prioritize AC or a cool ability in the off hand slot. For most something like Shield of the Scholar would be better anyway.

Amulet of Folkvangr:
Strictly better than the honorarily named 2014 UR Stu-pendous Pendant . While it has been over a decade, honorarily named token are generally purposefully somewhat better that average.

Charm of Echoed Taunts:
I don't play Dwarf, but this feels a bit weak to me, compared to the 2018 Uncommon Abyssal Lenses of Taunting .

Holy Symbol of Thor:
This would be the first Holy Symbol that (a) does not modify Turn Undead in some way; and (b) modifies damage outside of Turn Undead. It feels strange for a Holy Symbol not to impact Turning. Maybe add the damage to Turning as well; or to all Ranged? Given Cleric spells come from devotion to their gods, impacting Spells too would be thematic.
Personally, I would be fine with a straight reprint of Greater Holy Symbol of Pelor , but that's because I don't have one yet. Given it'll have been 14 years since the last UR Holy Symbol, I can certainly see why long-established Clerics who do would want something new!
This review was most definitely not written by a Cleric of Loki.

Picc's Grindstone:
If this is meant to be a progression of the 2019 Exalted Enchanter’s Whetstone , perhaps make this "+1 to hit & +1 damage w/ Melee and Ranged attacks"? I feel that removing the restriction on weapon rarity and having it apply to all attacks (instead of just weapon attacks) is pretty good.
I preferred it as a +1/+1 reusable Runestone.

Endgame wrote:

Impy wrote: Picc's Grindstone: I personally believe this token is on par with most slots (ring, charm, runestone) triply so for slotless. It was a bit better on the runestone slot. I am pretty anti-slotless stat boosts since that just becomes and assumed creep in game design which I don't find personally fun. If it's must be slotless consider reducing to +1

I agree completely, so have a +1.

My additional commentary
I believe Picc's Grindstone is dramatically more balanced as a runestone - by being a reusable runestone it still uses a slot that I could have been burning a consumable rare every run for +1 damage. So, basically, by buying a UR I would save myself the hassle of using consumables and I'd gain 1 extra damage over a rare.

Another +1 here, a re-usable runestone seems like the best option.

OrionW wrote: Is trivializing healing more really the direction we want to go with this token? Asking for the healers in the group.

I wouldn't say adding a potion drinking kicker using consumables trivializes healing anymore than potions already do.

OrionW wrote: This offers a path for folks that don't want to prioritize AC or a cool ability in the off hand slot. For most something like Shield of the Scholar would be better anyway.

We currently have multiple paths for all classes that don't want to prioritize AC - Brawler's horn and Brawler's mug.

Further increasing damage over Brawler's mug may seem like a fine UR path, however, I contend that it's not ideal to have unrestricted access to melee off hand damage in that regard. Ideally the Death Knight Shield should be the pinnacle of UR offhand gear, not something that promptly gets crept AND is available to all classes. If this were just available to Barbarian, Cleric, Fighters, Paladin, it might be less broken giving those classes a choice between AC and STR and raw damage, but even then I wouldn't recommend printing it while DK shield is still in print.