TOPIC: Feedback Needed on Rules Changes for 2025 Combat/Classes

Hail Forum Faithful!

It has become apparent that we need to finalize any new rules for character cards (class) changes slated for 2025 before we can start on the new Mythic tokens. To that end, please give me your feedback on these ideas. We don't have to get any of the new character cards for 2025 done this month, but we need to finalize any changes to the general rules very soon. Each class may get some little tweaks here and there. We don't need to talk about spells and power here...just the important changes to combat mostly. I am mentioning the Druid and Elf Wizard as those are the ones I plan on changing the most.

Rule Change Ideas

1) Dexterity will now be treated like Strength is for both to hit and damage with MISSILE attacks (not Ranged). Thus, a DEX of 18 will give the archer +4 to hit and +4 to damage.

2) Wisdom will also do this exact same + to hit / + to damage for Clerics and Druids who need to slide a hit to do damage. This will not change the amount of Healing they do.

3) Intelligence will be the same for Wizards as Wisdom is for Clerics/Druids -- bonus to hit and damage.

4) The Elf Wizard will be turned into a spellcaster that 80-90% of the time needs to slide to hit to do damage -- but when it does it the target it will delivery more average damage than the Wizard. The normal Wizard will have none or very little slide spells. This will give the classes a more distinct and interesting flavor. Focus will continue to work normally for everyone.

5) Charisma will do the same to hit/damage bonus for Bards with to hit spells, and we will set up bonus damage for Bardsong based on certain levels of Charisma. However, these won't be based on the other standard bonuses for Attributes like Strength. It will be more like +1 to damage at a Charisma of 18, +2 for a Charisma of 22, etc.

6) Monks gain a bonus to AC as Clerics do with Wisdom (we may have to tweak their starting AC).

7) Paladins gain additional healing pts, on their first use of Lay on Hand, equal to their Wisdom bonus

8) The Druid class will get tweaked so that it best represents a "jack of all trades" class. This includes changing polymorphing do it is naturally built into the class to give the druid fun/cool useful powers. If Druid want to be a big fighter in a room, they can do that with a Trinket token.

NOTE: Please note the number of the point you are addressing in your reply. Thus, if you want to talk about Point #4, please start your thoughts with something like "Regarding #4..."

Thanks for your quick feedback. I am sorry I don't have the time to write out a big post about each point. I appreciate your patience. Thank you for your kind and considered replies.

Point 1) How will thrown weapons work in this scenario, where Dex adds bonus damage?

AAckeret wrote: Point 1) How will thrown weapons work in this scenario, where Dex adds bonus damage?

Missile is to just magic or does it apply to arrows blunder shots etc, and ranged deals with thrown weapons ?

AAckeret wrote: Point 1) How will thrown weapons work in this scenario, where Dex adds bonus damage?

Thrown weapons would now be moved to all Dexterity for to-hit and damage.

Tyraël The Just wrote:

AAckeret wrote: Point 1) How will thrown weapons work in this scenario, where Dex adds bonus damage?

Missile is to just magic or does it apply to arrows blunder shots etc, and ranged deals with thrown weapons ?

I guess "Missile" is a Ranged attack that is not a Spell, Scroll or some other magical device that is not a typical projectile weapon like a Bow or Sling.

Regarding #2
Will wisdom be used by clerics and druids for all attacks and spells (melee, range, and spells) or is this just for a subset of class specific abilities and attacks?

Regarding #4:
- As someone with high INT and low DEX I really like the idea of at least one wizard being mostly non-slide-casting, and the tradeoff you describe is fair.

- Will Elf Wizard still be able to cast Alertness? Yes, that's a spell question -- but Alertness is just such a huge impact on Elven ability to contribute to the party that it would be good to know.

Regarding #3: Sounds good to me!

Jeff, I think you're missing the biggest change needed. The Ranger and Monk need to be limited to bonus damage only being applied to one attack per turn, instead of potentially two. Allowing them to apply their bonus melee damage to both attacks is the most unbalancing thing in the game currently.

#1: I think missile damage for some classes already is competitive with melee combat isn't it? It seems like the Dex change might shoot them above melee in bonus damage.

#2: Is the bonus spell damage/healing only applicable to slid spells? Currently that is none for the Druid I think.

#3: Similar to #1, Wizards are already the top damage dealers aren't they? Will this unbalance the classes?

#4 I like this change, it will be good to differentiate the classes and it gives Wizards two different styles to choose from.

#8: I'm not in favor of this change. It will probably move the Druid down near the bottom in damage dealing, and I am guessing those special abilities will only very rarely come into play in Dungeons, especially since damage dealing to monsters is by far the most valuable ability in Dungeons. I'll have to see how it is incorporated into the character sheets before making a final assessment. At the least I'd like to see Polymorph potions so Druids can polymorph in additional rooms if they like, even if it is at a lower damage wheel.

Regarding #8
It would be nice if druids got a few more elemental damage spells to match the same flexibility offered by Iktomi’s. If this came at the expense of some of the healing spells this would be a more satisfying identity then jack of all trades in my mind… or maybe just an ability to change the elemental type of damage they are doing.

#7. not sure if this is something to be discussed here or it’s not until further down the line, but I’d like to see something different or better with the Paladins. They aren’t good healers, wizards, clerics and I believe druids heal. But they don’t do great melee dmg either. On an equal field comparing to other melee characters, the fighter, DF, Monk and Barbarian all deal much more melee dmg, range is bested by rangers, rouges wizards ( I think they are different as they use spells ). So if Paladins aren’t even close to being great in in the melee characters list ( bottom ) and the missile ( non spell type dmg ) the are again at the bottom, healing is minimal, what is the Paladins role in the team? Detect evil is a fun one I use every run just to make the team laugh, sacrifice is nice, but I’m trying to figure out how to better a class I absolutely love while keeping balance between other classes. Is this something for here as we are talking class cards ? Or is this something for the future development?

Will Mystic Staves benefit from the “missile” damage bonuses for the classes that can use them?

For Monks, will this stat be Dexterity or Wisdom?

Regarding point #2: does wisdom effect only slide SPELLS, or any attack using a slide for Clerics and Druids?

Note Druids presently have no slide based spells (but potentially have slide based scrolls and mystic staves).