TOPIC: Safehold Program Targeted Feedback on Rules

All,

Thank you all very much for your thoughts and feedback on the Safehold Program. I could write a 1,000 word essay on my thoughts about how things were designed but we have so much work to do that time won't allow it. Maybe someday I could do a Q&A about it on Trent's show?

That said, I really wish I had set expectations about the Safehold program from the get-go. I should have made it really clear that it needed to avoid numbered tokens and special record-keeping at TD HQ. There have been lots of great ideas, but most fell away when we tried to figure out how to admin the thing. I was not smart enough to come up with something that was really different that didn't take a lot of admin time.

At this point in the design process, we need to focus on what is written on the page...and not other suggestions for how to do a completely different program. For better or for worse, what you see in the PDF is the broad design of the program. What I need know from folks are your thoughts on the tweaking of the rules presented. That would be most helpful. I am sorry if you dislike the entire framework of the program, but we have to move on and concentrate on polish up what we have made.

Please do NOT make any comments here about recipes. We will divide that off into another post for feedback. That way we can keep focused on the rules. Thanks for your help!

Changes since last post:

1) Changed Follower Conjurer to Follower Steward to keep things consistent (Steward tokens is now a group)

2) Changed some of the Followers so that they ALL add one expansion slot to a slot that currently does not have any slot expanders.

3) Getting a second Follower at Safehold I level was dropped.

We dropped the Safehold V recipes down quite a bit, but we will talk about that in another thread. Thanks for posting those thoughts there -- when that post gets made soonish.

Thanks again for all the help!

truedungeon.com/files/Safehold_Program_Details6.pdf

Thanks Jeff for your hard work on this. These are all really good changes.

I'd still like to see all the Mythics tied into Safehold 2, with Safehold 1 giving some sort of group benefit or something else cool. But that might fall outside the "polish up" you are looking for.

page 6, "However, it is possible that we will add more tokens to these various groups in the years ahead." Would you consider changing this to:
However, it is possible we will add, or change tokens to these various groups in the years ahead.
This gives you some added flexibility, if you find one especially under or over-powered. It would only stop new ones being made, but still it may be helpful to have that ability.

I am sad to see that the Follower Fiend no longer gives an extra ring. In my mind it was a nose ring and that was just such a cool concept. Very happy to see the Dragonkin make a come back though.

If I was to change one thing thematically it would be to change Underling to Apprentices just because I think it makes for a more evocative description on the token (and invites the token owner to create a backstory for the apprentice).

If I was to change one thing mechanically it would be to get rid of the +hit / + damage Underlings and replace them with one for each stat at +3 (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha).

Trainer limits:
Safehold II limits description doesn’t match the chart.

“Safehold II may equip up to TWO Hirelings, up to TWO Underlings, and ONE Follower.”

Chart refers to 2, 1, & 1, respectively.

-Christopher

apteryx wrote: page 6, "However, it is possible that we will add more tokens to these various groups in the years ahead." Would you consider changing this to:
However, it is possible we will add, or change tokens to these various groups in the years ahead.
This gives you some added flexibility, if you find one especially under or over-powered. It would only stop new ones being made, but still it may be helpful to have that ability.

Good idea!

Fiend is offering a Wrist slot and Charm Bracelets exist. (If you intent is to avoid slots with slot expanders)

Please change Underlings to....something else. Apprentices is fine.

For the sake of reigning in power creep and to avoid making things overly complicated (for Token interactions, the character builder apps, etc.) please change the Follower powers to + 4 (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Ch), +3 Saves and +6AC. Or something along those lines. We're already way too bloated with Slot expanders.

Thanks for all the time and energy you put into creating something new for us.

Cassie wrote: Thanks Jeff for your hard work on this. These are all really good changes.

I'd still like to see all the Mythics tied into Safehold 2, with Safehold 1 giving some sort of group benefit or something else cool. But that might fall outside the "polish up" you are looking for.

I saw that suggestion earlier, but it would get weird with lots of folks in a group with Safehold I tokens in the group...I think. Plus, it is hard for me to see how it works thematically.

OrionW wrote: I am sad to see that the Follower Fiend no longer gives an extra ring. In my mind it was a nose ring and that was just such a cool concept. Very happy to see the Dragonkin make a come back though.

If I was to change one thing thematically it would be to change Underling to Apprentices just because I think it makes for a more evocative description on the token (and invites the token owner to create a backstory for the apprentice).

If I was to change one thing mechanically it would be to get rid of the +hit / + damage Underlings and replace them with one for each stat at +3 (Str, Dex, Con, Int, Wis, Cha).

Fiend Change: Yeah...we have made them all slots with no slot expander.
Apprentices: The name does not fit the theme well. They are training you for an upcoming adventure. "Apprentice" would mean you are training them.
Stat bonuses: We went away from the stats as they are not equal. Dexterity is more effective a stat then Charisma.

In terms of formatting of the document and selling the benefits to the players, would it make more sense to have the first section be the RP-side of the discussion? IE, anything in the document that could be construed as "Imagine if your character could do this or build this and this will attract more trainers and helpers to your burgeoning Safehold!"- type stuff.

This would allow the second section to be devoted to the details and therefore more streamlined for explaining the logistics and the transmuting aspect.

-Should the Hireling Elven Archer be renamed? I think it's cool that it has a separate race, but no other hireling does and there are two tokens with Archer in the name, perhaps something like Hireling Tower Guard or Hireling Bowyer? That way if anything else ever happens with races later on, you won't create confusion with this specific token.

-Follower Fiend and Follower Sprite: I'm assuming that your stance here is that a single token in a slot that allows additional tokens does not make it a traditional token expander slot? Given Charm Bracelets and Cranston's Helpful Hat, would that also make a +1 Belt Follower a potential future follower despite Orion's Belt?

Christopher Abruscato wrote: Trainer limits:
Safehold II limits description doesn’t match the chart.

“Safehold II may equip up to TWO Hirelings, up to TWO Underlings, and ONE Follower.”

Chart refers to 2, 1, & 1, respectively.

-Christopher

Sorry, it was supposed to be change. I will fix it for the next round.