TOPIC: 2020 Ultra Rare Beta Images

Here are the big ones! Feedback is most welcomed!

truedungeon.com/files/Ultra.jpg

Damnit now I need 2 Rings of the Drake. One to Transmute and one for returning Shuriken.

I also don't think the power level for Cook's Hat is correct.

Use your head slot and minus 1 IS vs Use both your ring slots and -1 to all saves vs uses neck and both rings slots.

What's the set bonus for the Arcane set going to be again? Apologies if it 's been mentioned before, I can't seem to find it.

PalaDan wrote: What's the set bonus for the Arcane set going to be again? Apologies if it 's been mentioned before, I can't seem to find it.

UR "Arcane" Set Bonus - Wearing all three of these items will gain a character +2 healing from any healing Spell received

UR "Lucky" Set Bonus - Wearing any two of these items will gain a character +5 hit points

It's in the "notes about the 2020 collection" thready by Jeff

Math below on the healing for the keys - note, its a VERY large boost to healing for any group that has 10 keys.

Assumption 1) all players have a key.
Assumption 2) Druid and Cleric have Lense of Divine Sight, and will always split healing across 2 characters
Assumption 3) Bard is 5th level
Assumption 4) Cleric uses Restore Spell on Bard for another Soothe Wounds


Example healing mechanic:
Cure minor wounds heals 3 total (1 base, +2 from LoDS).
It is split across 2 characters, healing each for +2, thus the total healing is 7 hp (+4 bonus healing due to keys).


Base, low equipment party Healing math.
A cleric has 10 healing spells. This is +40 healing compared to a party with no keys.
A Druid has 7 healing spells. This is +28 healing compared to a party with no keys.
5th Level bard has 2 healing spells + the one from restore spell. This affects the whole party, and is +60 healing compared to a party with no keys.

The base, low equipment party has healed +108 HP compared to a party without keys.

High Equipment Party, with healing focus
Assumption 1) Bard equips ring of spell storing, Carter's Tome, Crown of Expertise
Assumption 2) Cleric and Druid equip ring of spell storing and Crown of Expertise
Assumption 3) Druid equips charm of spell swapping, gaining 9 more healing spells
Assumption 4) Tome slot will prevent Gregor's Tome and Carter's tome from being uses together on Cleric and Druid

Cleric can cast 1 extra spell, and restore spell to Bard. +4 healing (bard covered next).
Bard can cast Soothe wounds 4 more times for +80 healing compared to a party without keys.
Druid can cast 11 more healing spells. +44 healing.

Total additional from high equipment party: 128 HP
High equipment Party (step 1 + step 2):236 HP

Variable healing per dungeon with 10 keys: 108 to 236HP.
Assuming $100 per key, that is 1.08 HP per dollar to 2.36HP per dollar.

Compare to: a cleric with no baton of healing and buying them a +5 baton of healing.
11 healing spells gain +5 healing, for 55 total healing.
Assuming 1250 for +5 baton of healing, that is 0.044 HP Per dollar.

Compare to: a cleric with no tome of focus buying a tome of focus.
11 healing spells gain +2 healing, for 22 total healing.
Assuming 100 for a Gregor's Tome of Focus, that is 0.22 HP per dollar spent.

Comare to: A cleric with no baton of focus buying the rare Baton of Focus
11 healing spells gain + 1 healing, for 11 total healing.
Assuming $5 for a Baton of Focus, that is 2.2 HP per dollar spent.

Conclusion: Buying 10 keys is a potentially better purchase decision for healers at a dollar per hit point than buying rare +heal items is. Optimal path is probably to buy the rare items first, though.

*edit, like, 5*
I forgot to put a charm of spell swapping on the cleric in the high level gear party. That is 5 additional healing spells (at the cost of bless and prayer, though). That is +20 healing, for a top end of 256 extra healing. I think a little bit to see what else I can squeak out of the key... maybe we can hit +300 hp healed?

Endgame wrote: Math below on the healing for the keys - note, its a VERY large boost to healing for any group that has 10 keys.

Assumption 1) all players have a key.
Assumption 2) Druid and Cleric have Lense of Divine Sight, and will always split healing across 2 characters
Assumption 3) Bard is 5th level
Assumption 4) Cleric uses Restore Spell on Bard for another Soothe Wounds


Example healing mechanic:
Cure minor wounds heals 3 total (1 base, +2 from LoDS).
It is split across 2 characters, healing each for +2, thus the total healing is 7 hp (+4 bonus healing due to keys).


Base, low equipment party Healing math.
A cleric has 10 healing spells. This is +40 healing compared to a party with no keys.
A Druid has 7 healing spells. This is +28 healing compared to a party with no keys.
5th Level bard has 2 healing spells + the one from restore spell. This affects the whole party, and is +60 healing compared to a party with no keys.

The base, low equipment party has healed +108 HP compared to a party without keys.

High Equipment Party, with healing focus
Assumption 1) Bard equips ring of spell storing, Carter's Tome, Crown of Expertise
Assumption 2) Cleric and Druid equip ring of spell storing and Crown of Expertise
Assumption 3) Druid equips charm of spell swapping, gaining 9 more healing spells
Assumption 4) Tome slot will prevent Gregor's Tome and Carter's tome from being uses together on Cleric and Druid

Cleric can cast 1 extra spell, and restore spell to Bard. +4 healing (bard covered next).
Bard can cast Soothe wounds 4 more times for +80 healing compared to a party without keys.
Druid can cast 11 more healing spells. +44 healing.

Total additional from high equipment party: 128 HP
High equipment Party (step 1 + step 2):236 HP

Variable healing per dungeon with 10 keys: 108 to 236HP.
Assuming $100 per key, that is 1.08 HP per dollar to 2.36HP per dollar.

Compare to: a cleric with no baton of healing and buying them a +5 baton of healing.
11 healing spells gain +5 healing, for 55 total healing.
Assuming 1250 for +5 baton of healing, that is 0.044 HP Per dollar.

Compare to: a cleric with no tome of focus buying a tome of focus.
11 healing spells gain +2 healing, for 22 total healing.
Assuming 100 for a Gregor's Tome of Focus, that is 0.22 HP per dollar spent.

Comare to: A cleric with no baton of focus buying the rare Baton of Focus
11 healing spells gain + 1 healing, for 11 total healing.
Assuming $5 for a Baton of Focus, that is 2.2 HP per dollar spent.

Conclusion: Buying 10 keys is a better purchase decision for healers at a dollar per hit point than buying rare +heal items is.

Your 'Base, low equipment party Healing math.' is still is figuring LoDS for both Cleric and Druid. Plus level bumps for Cleric, Druid, Bard. This does not seem like a fair comparison.

You cost analysis of The +5 Baton of Focus solely focuses on healing while the baton does more than that. It also pumps damage spells, which I admit on a 5th level Cleric is only 2 spells but that is still extra damage on both those spells. It also can but used as a melee weapon.

If you are looking for cost of a rare vs ultra-rare for any token and you look at cost vs damage output, you will always fine that dollars per damage goes down as rarity goes up. I don't know what healing would be different.

jpotter wrote:

PalaDan wrote: What's the set bonus for the Arcane set going to be again? Apologies if it 's been mentioned before, I can't seem to find it.

UR "Arcane" Set Bonus - Wearing all three of these items will gain a character +2 healing from any healing Spell received

UR "Lucky" Set Bonus - Wearing any two of these items will gain a character +5 hit points

It's in the "notes about the 2020 collection" thready by Jeff

Thank you!

Endgame wrote: Math below on the healing for the keys - note, its a VERY large boost to healing for any group that has 10 keys.

Assumption 1) all players have a key.
Assumption 2) Druid and Cleric have Lense of Divine Sight, and will always split healing across 2 characters
Assumption 3) Bard is 5th level
Assumption 4) Cleric uses Restore Spell on Bard for another Soothe Wounds


Example healing mechanic:
Cure minor wounds heals 3 total (1 base, +2 from LoDS).
It is split across 2 characters, healing each for +2, thus the total healing is 7 hp (+4 bonus healing due to keys).


Base, low equipment party Healing math.
A cleric has 10 healing spells. This is +40 healing compared to a party with no keys.
A Druid has 7 healing spells. This is +28 healing compared to a party with no keys.
5th Level bard has 2 healing spells + the one from restore spell. This affects the whole party, and is +60 healing compared to a party with no keys.

The base, low equipment party has healed +108 HP compared to a party without keys.

High Equipment Party, with healing focus
Assumption 1) Bard equips ring of spell storing, Carter's Tome, Crown of Expertise
Assumption 2) Cleric and Druid equip ring of spell storing and Crown of Expertise
Assumption 3) Druid equips charm of spell swapping, gaining 9 more healing spells
Assumption 4) Tome slot will prevent Gregor's Tome and Carter's tome from being uses together on Cleric and Druid

Cleric can cast 1 extra spell, and restore spell to Bard. +4 healing (bard covered next).
Bard can cast Soothe wounds 4 more times for +80 healing compared to a party without keys.
Druid can cast 11 more healing spells. +44 healing.

Total additional from high equipment party: 128 HP
High equipment Party (step 1 + step 2):236 HP

Variable healing per dungeon with 10 keys: 108 to 236HP.
Assuming $100 per key, that is 1.08 HP per dollar to 2.36HP per dollar.

Compare to: a cleric with no baton of healing and buying them a +5 baton of healing.
11 healing spells gain +5 healing, for 55 total healing.
Assuming 1250 for +5 baton of healing, that is 0.044 HP Per dollar.

Compare to: a cleric with no tome of focus buying a tome of focus.
11 healing spells gain +2 healing, for 22 total healing.
Assuming 100 for a Gregor's Tome of Focus, that is 0.22 HP per dollar spent.

Comare to: A cleric with no baton of focus buying the rare Baton of Focus
11 healing spells gain + 1 healing, for 11 total healing.
Assuming $5 for a Baton of Focus, that is 2.2 HP per dollar spent.

Conclusion: Buying 10 keys is a potentially better purchase decision for healers at a dollar per hit point than buying rare +heal items is. Optimal path is probably to buy the rare items first, though.

Not to rehash discussions from the Lords & Ladies threads, but I think it's worthwhile to look at this another way. I think it's more beneficial to look at how it affects each spell, which is how we look at all other bonuses, instead of some hypothetical cumulative sum for the adventure. Any healing bonus can look high if you look at a max worst case cumulative scenario, which I think is not useful. As I mention below, the Linked Shirt of Healing can provide 50% more bonus cumulative healing than the Keys currently can, and I haven't heard people saying that is broken.

It adds +2 to Cleric & Druid spells, or +4 if they have LoDS. And this does require 10 URs to be purchased for the group in order for everyone to get benefit. That is inline with other "Focus" type token bonuses, and this only grants bonus healing instead of bonus spell and polymorph damage, so the healing should be better than with a Focus token.

This is 50% less effective than outfitting the group with 10 Uncommon Linked Shirts of Healing, which cost about $1 - $2 each instead of $100 each. If the whole group is outfitted with Linked Shirts, it grants +3 per healing spell, or +6 per healing spell if the caster has LoDS, which as I said is 50% better than 10 Keys. I actually think the Key is balanced at +3 Healing, it seems like it's appropriate for a slotless UR to have the same effect as a slotted Uncommon token.

It is also usually less effective than the slotless Horn of the Valkyrie, which can prevent up to 16 damage per Dungeon, and is neither high demand or overpowered. Even if you get healed 6 times in a Dungeon, the Key will only give you a cumulative bonus of +12 healing, which is less than the 16 the Horn can prevent (heal).

+2 Flaming Dirk: 7.5 Average Damage. Same as Viper Strike Fangs but usable by Druids.

+3 Rod of the Meek: 7.5 Average Damage. Only comparable items I can think of are Stu's +3 Hand Stein (5.5 avg dmg) or +3 Rod of Niltongue (6.5 avg dmg).

This is a strong batch of proposed ur’s.

So how many Ioun stones and charms can we end up equipping?


I like the semi-lich skull and gets me excited for the upcoming eldritch transmute

Part of me is excited about the Hand of Glory, since I have never even seen one of those tokens in all of my years playing and dealing tokens.

However it isn't that good of a token. It swaps the most powerful slot (neck) for a slightly less powerful slot (ring). I'm not saying it's useless, but I wouldn't wear it.

Perhaps I'd like to see a transmute path for the Hand of Glory, so that there is a Relic version that gives you +2 rings. Then it would be interesting.

Kirk Bauer wrote: Part of me is excited about the Hand of Glory, since I have never even seen one of those tokens in all of my years playing and dealing tokens.

However it isn't that good of a token. It swaps the most powerful slot (neck) for a slightly less powerful slot (ring). I'm not saying it's useless, but I wouldn't wear it.

Perhaps I'd like to see a transmute path for the Hand of Glory, so that there is a Relic version that gives you +2 rings. Then it would be interesting.

I'm not excited about Hand of Glory either, although I can't blame Jeff for putting it in because that was suggested in the last review session. Now that we're moving to Relic/Legendary neck slots for most classes, maybe Hand of Glory isn't as desirable now.