TOPIC: Negative stats of Ultra Rare tokens?

I'm not a big fan of any ultra rare token with any negative stats like +3 strength but -2 to constitution or anything like that. Ultra rare should be all positive stats. How does everyone else feel about that. Most all older tokens didn't have negative stats. I hope Jeff will take that into consideration.

The kilts and the gaint belts come to mind in having negative stats and the redoubt set

I like negatives.

I see it as a good solution to the problem of needing to print more and more tokens that will be in demand, while at the same time not totally succumbing to power creep.

So we've got a +2 STR belt at rare, and a +3 STR belt at rare that gives -2 AC.

We've got a +4 STR gloves at UR, and a +5 STR - 2 DEX gloves at UR

And so on.

It also makes building your character more interesting as what you do in one slot impacts another slot. Without drawbacks optimizing your build is just "optimize each slot." With drawbacks it's "optimizing 20+ tokens."

But... I've always liked this aspect of games, ever since first encountering cursed swords in a text computer roguelike called Omega that couldn't be unequipped unto you uncursed them (or got arrested by the town guard who would disarm you).

I dont like them. the +- item model has made coaching way harder (especially since they spread to rares & uncommons).

I'm terms of UR+ I also dont like them. The original idea was that the negative would balance the higher primary stat but in truth its usually to easy to build around and only serves to justify a larger spread resulting in more power creep.

Your a rogue wearing tavern bane for example, it feels like that -dex should be scary but in reality your dex is so high that you dont care about the saves impact and if you use something like leaping attack you dont care about your ranged stat. If your a healer or a wizard -str isn't really a meaningful penalty.

The worst part about them though is that their very existence make it harder to go back to flat +items. What's more desirable +4str gauntlets or +5str-2dex. Psychologically the 5 is a bigger number and your committed to melee anyway...

Either way their here though and we have to deal with them, even if they represent the point where things started to get really OP IMO.

As a player, I agree with Matthew.

I can see the issues of the coaches.

As a coach I encourage Everyone to use one of the approved Character generators with web based or app. Not only does it make the job easier for the coach it also provides a player and additional 38 point for using the pre-generated character

Bob Chasan wrote: As a coach I encourage Everyone to use one of the approved Character generators with web based or app. Not only does it make the job easier for the coach it also provides a player and additional 38 point for using the pre-generated character

QFT!

Anyone in Bob's coaching rooms will get 38 HP for using a character creator.

MEC Wizards rejoice!

Personally I don't like negatives on my tokens either, but I know they're really popular with many.

Randal Heike wrote: I'm not a big fan of any ultra rare token with any negative stats like +3 strength but -2 to constitution or anything like that. Ultra rare should be all positive stats. How does everyone else feel about that. Most all older tokens didn't have negative stats. I hope Jeff will take that into consideration.

This game never has Tokens that expire
Or phase out of use.
Jeff needs the options.
So he can mix it up,
Year after year.
To open up the creative window
For him.

As coach I prefer pure positive items, that said I fully understand the needs for the design space negatives open up.

I'm really looking forward to that bazaar of Baghdad style token that turns up one day and reverses all token + and - (amulet of wonder effect or grind maybe, hell on the character builders but hella fun)

I would also love to see tokens where the negative aligned to the stat it raised. Something like Amulet of careful aim:+6 dex -6 reflex -3 Ac

Or amulet of uncontrolled rage: +4 STR -3hit. It would be interesting to see which part of specific bonuses people value most rather the just seeing negatives around stats people can afford to loose.

That said I would not mind a few year of easy to record stats ok forget everything I just said.

The Falcon wrote:

Randal Heike wrote: I'm not a big fan of any ultra rare token with any negative stats like +3 strength but -2 to constitution or anything like that. Ultra rare should be all positive stats. How does everyone else feel about that. Most all older tokens didn't have negative stats. I hope Jeff will take that into consideration.

This game never has Tokens that expire
Or phase out of use.
Jeff needs the options.
So he can mix it up,
Year after year.
To open up the creative window
For him.

Mostly true, but some tokens expire like Golden Tickets, and some phase out of use like Rumors and scrolls of Light.