TOPIC: Suggestion for human fighter improvement.

Since the forum for Gencon 2019 hasn't been put up yet, I'm submitting this suggestion here.

As of right now, at level 4, the only thing that human fighters have going for them is slightly higher strength than dwarf fighters....dwarves have more HP, as well as the caster-saving taunt ability. Human fighters tend to be picked only after the dwarf fighter has been taken, as a result. At 5th level they get a little better with the re-slide ability, but dwarves at that point also get the enhanced crit in addition to their taunt.

Suggestion for a new fighter ability to make them a more interesting choice, comparable to the dwarf, as well as address another post on this forum.

Inspiring warrior/Inspiring Veteran: (4th/5th). Once per game, When one or more party members fail a reflex, will, or fortitude save, the fighter may force a re-roll, taking the better of the two rolls. At 5th level, this changes to once per room instead of once per game.


One thing I've been reading on the forums is how disappointed groups are when "just one roll" completely wrecks the party, or takes out the only person in the room with healing spells. Rolling a 1 and having the entire party fall asleep just isn't fun, to cite an example I know happened at gencon. To me, this makes slightly more sense than having multiple rolls for individual party members (10 d20s would be crazy), and gives parties a chance to wiggle out of a potentially TPK solution. It's quick (Fighter just yells out to re-roll and it's done in about 5 seconds), and would be easy enough to work into existing mechanics.

It would also give the fighter a unique role in the party, as to my knowledge, re-rolling failed saves has only been the purview of UR figurines in the past. So while the dwarven fighter is the meat shield that protects against attacks, the human fighter would be the commander that leads attacks and protects against save-or-ouch effects.

Thoughts?

Adam Pillari wrote: Since the forum for Gencon 2019 hasn't been put up yet, I'm submitting this suggestion here.

As of right now, at level 4, the only thing that human fighters have going for them is slightly higher strength than dwarf fighters....dwarves have more HP, as well as the caster-saving taunt ability. Human fighters tend to be picked only after the dwarf fighter has been taken, as a result. At 5th level they get a little better with the re-slide ability, but dwarves at that point also get the enhanced crit in addition to their taunt.

Suggestion for a new fighter ability to make them a more interesting choice, comparable to the dwarf, as well as address another post on this forum.

Inspiring warrior/Inspiring Veteran: (4th/5th). Once per game, When one or more party members fail a reflex, will, or fortitude save, the fighter may force a re-roll, taking the better of the two rolls. At 5th level, this changes to once per room instead of once per game.


One thing I've been reading on the forums is how disappointed groups are when "just one roll" completely wrecks the party, or takes out the only person in the room with healing spells. Rolling a 1 and having the entire party fall asleep just isn't fun, to cite an example I know happened at gencon. To me, this makes slightly more sense than having multiple rolls for individual party members (10 d20s would be crazy), and gives parties a chance to wiggle out of a potentially TPK solution. It's quick (Fighter just yells out to re-roll and it's done in about 5 seconds), and would be easy enough to work into existing mechanics.

It would also give the fighter a unique role in the party, as to my knowledge, re-rolling failed saves has only been the purview of UR figurines in the past. So while the dwarven fighter is the meat shield that protects against attacks, the human fighter would be the commander that leads attacks and protects against save-or-ouch effects.

Thoughts?

I'm all for doing something for the poor forgotten Human Fighters. And it still stays fairly simple for people that don't want a complex class.

As far as power level goes, 1/game at 4th seems about right. I was going to say 1/room might be too high for 5th, but in reality, we're probably talking about 3/game in total, maybe 5/game at most (and that likely just in Grind).

The one-roll-per-party is a time saving shortcut. I agree it’s extremely suboptimal, and feels bad when you all fail, but it’s great when a 20 rescues even the folks with crummy saves. I think the party should have the option of rolling ten separate saves if they want, with the understanding that they’re sacrificing time for accuracy.

The UR FOP:Cat only allows one reroll per game. Even at one per game this proposed rule seems very overpowered, if it applies to the whole party at once. After all, Paladin’s sacrifice only applies to one player, even in a TPK scenario, and it has a heavy cost to activate.

I could see maybe giving one player a reroll.

I played fighter for the first time at GC this year. I never used the reslide ability and don't expect to use it (as I wouldn't play fighter on NM/Epic unless the party was desperate), but I didn't hate how boring fighter is.

Human fighter desperately needs somethings. It is so dull. Of course, I care about variety. Other people may care about effectiveness or whatever.

I'd like to see the 4th level get some additional ability. But, until all of the class cards get redone, just having a couple of tokens that are just for them would be the easy way to go. One at UR to distinguish for higher level play (at slot that someone would actually use). One c/u/r so that the casual player gets something different for the fighter - uncommon would be consistent with what dwarf got recently and with Ring of the Soothing Touch, Masterwork Thieves' Tools, bard instrument, Mistletoe, etc.

Leadership abilities strike me as thematic. Just don't want to get overly complicated. There are a limited number of dials to turn that impact 4th level play.

I use the fighter reslide ability quite often, I generally slide first and then if its a bad slide I will slide last to help push someone in.

James J Krot wrote: I use the fighter reslide ability quite often, I generally slide first and then if its a bad slide I will slide last to help push someone in.

When I play human Fighter I usually slide first to test board speed for the party. I often reslide as well.

Again, well and great for 5th level fighters. But 4th level fighters....

James J Krot wrote: I use the fighter reslide ability quite often, I generally slide first and then if its a bad slide I will slide last to help push someone in.

From Fighter card: “Once per combat, Fughters may immediately re-slide a melee attack...” (emphasis mine),

And from p20 of the PHB: “If you decide you want to re-slide, you must do it immediately after making your initial slide, before anyone else make another slide. (This doesn’t mean you need to be the first person to slide that round, it just means you need to decide immediately after you make your slide.) ”

It sounds like you’re saying you don’t do it that way.

The 4th level human fighter power is higher base stats (functionally +1 hit/damage). Granted we could call it out better, maybe something like Goliath, or Physical specimen:+2 str. The DF originally got taunt to balance that.

I consider the higher str score to be quite useful as it's always on nature benefits every slide. But if you were looking for something more class defining the ability to Re-roll party saves seems off brand for the more offensive of the two fighters.

For a human ability I'd expect something like charge: The fighter may close to melee range immediately, or bash:+2 damage on the fighters next attack.

Or honestly move the reslide ability to lv4 on both fighters, give the human both a call out of their higher str & a copy of the dwarfs enhanced crit at lv5

I completely disagree that the Human Fighter is boring. If you think it's a boring class, you're not playing it the right way.

The focus is on sliding. If you are a accurate slider, you make a good fighter. If you're a poor slider, it's not for you. At lower levels, your slide is very important as many of your party may not hit. At higher levels, you play "clean-up" by bumping others that have a lower "to hit" while at the same time your bump slide will still more than likely hit at a lower number.

Weapons Specialization (The ability to re-slide at level 5) is a very powerful tool that makes the Fighter an even more strategic class.

1) As others have said, if the Fighter goes first, it can be used to test the speed of the board.

2) If the Fighter goes last, first slide can be a bump and then the second slide can be a targeted attack OR used to further bump if the first bump was not successful.

Finally, the fact that the Fighter is not bogged-down with other abilities, means they can play a leadership role in the party.

1) Party organization: They make sure sliding is fast and efficient to increase the number of rounds the party can attack.

2) In combat, keeping track of damage and who has been hitting. In a multi-monster room, nothing is worse than a Wizard blowing a big spell on the same monster that everyone has been pummeling with melee.

3) Taking the lead in puzzle rooms to ensure communication/teamwork.

Think I'm wrong? Let's have at it!!!

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: Think I'm wrong? Let's have at it!!! Fight me!

Fixed that for ya.

kurtreznor wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: Think I'm wrong? Let's have at it!!! Fight me!

Fixed that for ya.

Lol!