TOPIC: Clarifying Damage Reduction (DR) - Rules, Examples, & Feedback

To maintain clarity, consistency, and speed in combat, we’re sharing our updated standard for Damage Reduction (DR).

We’d love to start the discussion here and get your feedback. Keep an eye out for updates to both the Player’s Handbook and TokenDB maintaining these rules.

General Definition: "-X damage" = "X DR"

• Calculating DR: Add up the DR values for each matching delivery method (Melee, Missile, Spell) and damage type (Fire, Cold, Darkrift, etc.) present in the attack.
• "All" DR: A token that grants 3 DR (such as Deathward Greaves) means you subtract 3 points of damage from every matching delivery method and damage type involved in the attack. It covers every category except for Push and Eldritch. (Assume puzzle damage is Eldritch unless noted by the DM).
• "Ranged" DR: Applies to both Missile and Spell attacks.
• The Cap: Total DR cannot exceed 20 points per attack (unlimited in Mythic setting).
  
• Questions? Just ask your DM which delivery methods or damage types an attack consists of.

Examples

Equipped:

• Deathward Greaves: -3 damage except Push & Eldritch
• Ioun Stone Sunstone Trilliant: -10 damage from Cold, Darkrift, Fire, Sacred, Shock, & Sonic
• Earcuff of Thor’s Bliss: -2 damage from Shock & Sonic

Attack 1 - Volcanic Fist (5 Melee + 15 Fire = 20 total damage)

• DR Breakdown: 3 (Melee) + 13 (Fire) = 16 DR
• Result: Take 20 - 16 = 4 damage

Attack 2 - Flaming Arrow (5 Missile + 15 Fire = 20 total damage)

• DR Breakdown: 3 (Missile) + 13 (Fire) = 16 DR
• Result: Take 20 - 16 = 4 damage

Attack 3 - Chaos Storm (5 Spell + 10 Fire + 10 Shock = 25 total damage)

• DR Breakdown: 3 (Spell) + 10 (Fire) + 10 (Shock) = 23 DR (Capped at 20)
• Result: Take 25 - 20 = 5 damage

Let us know your thoughts below!

This seems to be, in parallel, the most complicated way to calculate DR and the way to most punish players without DR.

Image a Barbarian with Deathward Greaves, Shaed, and Bloodless.

you end up with this formula mid dungeon:

Total damage - the following:

Number of attack types * 3
Number of attack types * 1
number of attack types * 2

Then possibly another -4 if it also is ranged (Attack 2 or Attack 3)

Now, let's presume an Epic run where the dungeon wants to threaten damage, but it's also thematic that the attack deals 3 damage types, like the chaos storm attack. Many players are already getting -9 damage just from the deathward greaves, so you're likely looking at 35-40 damage just to land damage on players that have greaves + another item like Shaed. If a player runs without DR, however, they are likely losing half their hp on a single attack.

Thank you Wyld, this is pretty easy to follow and makes sense. I do have a few clarifying questions:

I assume the level 5 Barbarian's DR acts as an "all" DR similar to Deathward Greaves?

Do these effects count as delivery methods: Retribution (hit lightning elemental in melee, get zapped), ambient (room is full of acid, automatically take damage every round), aura (even getting close to the lava monster deals fire damage)
-I would think "All" DR should cover those effects?

When do these rules/clarifications take effect?

Mostly confusion. Let me just take one example.

Attack 1 - Volcanic Fist (5 Melee + 15 Fire = 20 total damage)
DR Breakdown: 3 (Melee) + 13 (Fire) = 16 DR
Result: Take 20 - 16 = 4 damage

It appears that damage is done by both the delivery method and damage type.
If Melee does 5 damage, what damage type is that. Would seem to me it would be blunt.
It Deathward Greaves is mitigating both, then effectively it now mitigates 6 damage, thus doubling what I thought was the intended ability of the token.

To me, every attack has a delivery method and a damage type. My opinion has always been that a token mitigates damage types. If a token mitigates based on a delivery method, to me that says it mitigates all damage types using that delivery method. In this case 3 Fire. But maybe that's just me. I think only 13 damage should be mitigated and 7 damage taken.

I also know that in many rooms a DM in this case might say "The Flaming Fist delivers 5 Blunt and 15 Fire Damage. You can mitigate one, but not both." I really don't like that interpretation, but it yields a better result. Again, in my opinion.

I have never liked the notion of something double dipping. It just feels off and overly complicated. If something attacks me with a fire melee punch for 6 when I have the Deathward Greaves, I would expect to take 3, not 0, but rules as written say 0.

Based on the first posts description of DR I don't think anyone is going to be able to calculate this real time in the dungeon. You can't ask people to start doing multiple math equations in the dungeon, especially new players. Let me find my old post with my suggestion for keeping things simple and I will repost it here.

While it isn’t a quick explanation, the easiest to parse is DR tiers, like this (my proposal)

Level 5 Barbarian is equipped with Deathward Greaves, Kvothe's Bloodless, and IS ruby rhombus

Flaming Arrow (Ranged Attack) deals 10 fire,10 piercing. When applicable, player may choose which damage they are reducing.

Step 1: Reduce by global damage
Ex:
1a) Reduce by 1 for Level 5 Barbarian
1b) reduce by 3 for Deathward Greaves.


This Barbarian chooses to reduce the 10 piercing damage by 4 leaving 10 fire damage and 6 piercing damage.

Step 2: reduce by broad attack type (ranged or melee)
Ex: This attack is ranged, so reduce by 4 for bloodless.

2a) This Barbarian chooses to reduce the remaining 6 piercing damage by 4 leaving 10 fire damage and 2 piercing damage.

Step 3: reduce by elemental damage.

This Barbarian is wearing a IS ruby rhombus. Fire damage is reduced by 3, leaving 7 fire damage and 2 piercing.

The Barbarian takes 9 damage. 7 of which could later be healed by lamp of the Marid

Thanks for the explanation!
Looks good to me.

Here is my recommendation to make things easiest along with keeping things uniform in the character creators (app, TDCC, Trent Tokens, Amorgen's)

When Tokens are added to your build, let's say the example that was used:

Equipped:
Deathward Greaves: -3 damage except Push & Eldritch
Ioun Stone Sunstone Trilliant: -10 damage from Cold, Darkrift, Fire, Sacred, Shock, & Sonic
Earcuff of Thor’s Bliss: -2 damage from Shock & Sonic

Add DR to each category. So in this case let's take Shock, it would have a total DR of 15. Fire would have 13 and Melee would have just 3.


The DR rule is that once per attack players can reduce damage and use the category that has the highest number.

So for your examples:

- Volcanic Fire consists of a total of 20 Melee and Fire Damage. Player subtracts 13 because Fire is their highest DR of 13 and takes 7 damage

- Flaming Arrow consists of 5 Missle and 15 Fire for 20 total damage. Again, player uses their Fire DR of 13 because it's the highest. Takes 7 damage.

- Chaos Storm (5 Spell + 10 Fire + 10 Shock = 25 total damage). Player has a 15 DR for Shock so they use that and take 10 points of damage.

Super simple for players and for the folks that do the character builders. And makes all DR Tokens usable because every Token adds to its associated category. If you have a monster that does multiple attacks you get to use your highest damage reduction once per each attack.

On your attack three example, if you hadn't been over the cap, would all of the fire DR have been counted even though there was less fire damage than the fire DR?

Mike Steele wrote: On your attack three example, if you hadn't been over the cap, would all of the fire DR have been counted even though there was less fire damage than the fire DR?

That has been corrected. Thanks for the catch.

Sintheros wrote: I have never liked the notion of something double dipping. It just feels off and overly complicated. If something attacks me with a fire melee punch for 6 when I have the Deathward Greaves, I would expect to take 3, not 0, but rules as written say 0.

I agree with this sentiment. Preventing double-dipping without making the rules too complicated would be ideal in my mind (assuming it is workable).