TOPIC: Token Prices plummet?

Druegar wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Just because some random person joined a random run once and loaned TE's I don't know why that would make anyone reasonable think it would happened again.

💯

And even though I agree with you completely, I can't tell you how many times I've interacted with people in the TDverse who have an attitude that essentially boils down to, "because once, therefore always." And these folks get bigly 🍑-hurt when their very incorrect assumptions don't pan out.🙄

It may not be reasonable, but it's something TDHQ has to deal with a lot.

That is valid. but I don't know that it a bad thing if adults do get peach-hurt (lol) if they have unreasonable expectations about anything, it does suck that you and TDHQ have to deal with that.

jedibcg wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Marc D wrote: I was also thinking a "first taste is free" philosophy on TE loaning, but it seems to be the norm on VTD which could damper that thinking somewhat.

True, that was my point. If someone can reasonable expect to get TE tokens loaned to them, there is no incentive for them to buy TE tokens, which is less revenue for TD.

Sure if you could prove that anyone can reasonable expect a TE, but I think that is a hard proof. Just because some random person joined a random run once and loaned TE's I don't know why that would make anyone reasonable think it would happened again. Even if randomly it happened half of the runs you had been on I don't think it is a reasonable assumption that you will get TE's loaned to you.

Marc just said that loaning TE tokens seems to be the norm on VTD, not the exception. I'll drop the discussion though, I thought it was an interesting topic for discussion.

I may just be lucky in the groups I drop into, but all the VTDs I do are PUGs and generally the group can muster up a full set of nuggets + beads. At the least, gold + plat and beads.

There's an occasional CoA shortage.

Since CoA, ISSN, ISPN, and ISGN are no longer available through TD (yes CoA may be transmuted still but Recipe #3 would require acquisition of a lot of beads which would help TD), TD doesn't lose any revenue if those treasure tokens are loaned. Of course, it "might" affect the secondary market for those tokens if you assume that players won't ever want those tokens because they assume they'll always get loaners.

It's interesting to me anecdotally as a VTD (DM) and in person con vol (Trainer/Coach) the different expectations I have about parties.

In VTD I expect Nightmare as a baseline and when it comes to epilogue i'm surprised if it's not full treasure or dang near it. In person i see far more normal and hardcore parties and far less full treasure. I attribute some of that to much easier in general to assemble a group for a VTD run and in general those are much more invested players vs more casually but no less important folks who run at Gen Con new or only once or twice a year at in person cons.

My point here is its' not surprising that there's different demographics and thoughts on who's interested in secondary market prices rising or falling or just plain ambivalent.

As a player i'd much rather see lower ticket prices as that's what's pricing me out and thus to some extent less interested in tokens. But also i'm a relative plateau of i'm in a current NM+/Epic- for my preferred classes and for actual upgrades is more than i'm willing to spend money on even at currently depressed prices. I can play my chosen difficulty/class mix well enough that i'm willing to wait and see what i can get later vs any immediacy to buy.

We have gone down a really interesting digression.

Are players be allowed to share TEs at all?
-Are players able to give, loan, rent, or Merc TEs (means of production)?
--Do we have rules/guidelines in place to ensure these are done "fairly"?

Should treasure be treated individually or on a party level?
-Should a player who has +10 treasure only receive +1 splitting the entire benefit at the party level?
--Base party treasure is 30, Billy has a +10. Party now has 40 to split.
---Should Billy get a bit more for investing/owning/wearing the TE?
----Will Billy be sad they were not able to get tickets outside of PUG runs?

...Such an interesting digression...

True hero of time (THOT) wrote: We have gone down a really interesting digression.

Are players be allowed to share TEs at all?
-Are players able to give, loan, rent, or Merc TEs (means of production)?
--Do we have rules/guidelines in place to ensure these are done "fairly"?

Should treasure be treated individually or on a party level?
-Should a player who has +10 treasure only receive +1 splitting the entire benefit at the party level?
--Base party treasure is 30, Billy has a +10. Party now has 40 to split.
---Should Billy get a bit more for investing/owning/wearing the TE?
----Will Billy be sad they were not able to get tickets outside of PUG runs?

...Such an interesting digression...

Here is the Player's Handbook info on TE tokens including loaning them:

Treasure-Enhancing Tokens
Some tokens can increase the amount of TREASURE
CHIPS your character earns. These are referred to as
Treasure Enhancers, or simply TEs. Like all tokens
your character utilizes, you must show these tokens
to your coach in the coaching room. In addition to
that, for added security:
1) Persons may not enter any training room unless
they’re wearing a wristband for that specific event
slot or they are the trainer for that shift.
2) Persons may not enter the epilogue room through
the exit door. Only players coming out of Room 7
may enter that area.
3) When players arrive at the Epilogue Room, they
need to present their Party Card to the volunteer
who uses the totals on the Party Card to award
TREASURE CHIPS. All players who used TEs must
present their TEs in the Epilogue Room for
authentication. You are required to remove all
your TEs from any kind of enclosure (including
binders, holders, sashes, etc.) and allow the
volunteer to both visually and tactilely inspect
your TE tokens. The volunteer checks each player,
one at a time.
4) The loaning of TEs is permissible, but only
between people within a single group on the same
run together. The loaning player must have the
same date & time on their wristband as the loanee.
Why all this fuss? Unfortunately, some players
decided to cheat the system and try to get more
treasure than they were entitled to. When this abuse
became too widespread, we were forced to enact
more draconian security measures. We realize
removing tokens from enclosures can be a pain, but
we hope you realize the necessity of this ruling.

David Autzen wrote: There is also a thread in the Facebook Fans of Gen Con page with folks grumbling about the cost of playing a run. Some complain about the folks with all the power tokens running an adventure.

This is the big reason why several runs are sealed packs only now.

That also works in reverse. Having spent money for some Eldritch and legendary tokens,,, I will not play in a sealed pack adventure. One of the things that needs to happen is higher XP value awarded for Epic. Higher value tokens would be needed for reasonable survival so higher demand would help maintain higher token prices.

Mongo64 wrote: That also works in reverse. Having spent money for some Eldritch and legendary tokens,,, I will not play in a sealed pack adventure. One of the things that needs to happen is higher XP value awarded for Epic. Higher value tokens would be needed for reasonable survival so higher demand would help maintain higher token prices.

I think the concern is that if Epic had an increased reward like XP, there might be players pressuring other players to play Epic mode even if they didn't want to and/or weren't prepared for that difficulty level. As I understand, that was the main reason for TD to equalize rewards among most difficulty levels.

Mike Steele wrote:

Mongo64 wrote: That also works in reverse. Having spent money for some Eldritch and legendary tokens,,, I will not play in a sealed pack adventure. One of the things that needs to happen is higher XP value awarded for Epic. Higher value tokens would be needed for reasonable survival so higher demand would help maintain higher token prices.

I think the concern is that if Epic had an increased reward like XP, there might be players pressuring other players to play Epic mode even if they didn't want to and/or weren't prepared for that difficulty level. As I understand, that was the main reason for TD to equalize rewards among most difficulty levels.

Sadly, this has been true in the past. Any reward for a higher level of difficulty leads to some coercion (no matter how well intentioned) to play a higher level. This can lead to bad experiences for newer players. And I just don't see any good solution.

But I do agree that some incentive to collect higher level tokens is needed. I'm hoping mythic level can help with that.

I understand the concern, but, If that's happened, I've never seen it in any group I've ever played in. In fact, just the opposite,,, players with higher level tokens gladly loaning them to help out other people.