TOPIC: Proxy Tokens and DMs

I haven't seen this topic posted yet in its own thread so here it goes...

I will preface this by stating I don't use proxy Tokens. My belief is that if I'm spending my time and money transmuting higher end Tokens you can bet your heinie I'm using them. But, if my Legendary hits the floor I'm calling time out until it's found.

Okay... here it goes...

There are quite a few people using proxy Tokens now for their Relics and Legendaries. I can understand why they do and even support them when a DM takes it upon him/herself to refuse to allow them to be slid/played.

Team Yeti encountered various DMs throughout the days that made different rulings on proxies. By Saturday afternoon our one partial Yeti Run had 2 DMs refuse to let proxies be used.

I was a Puzzle DM this year so I wasn't privy to what the official ruling was for Combat DMs to do when it came to proxies. The last I knew prior to GenCon was that the player(s) had to be able to show they had the actual Token while using a proxy for sliding. Had this changed in any way?

What was Jeff's official ruling on this? I know Jeff leaves certain decisions to the ACs to make because he gets real busy during GenCon. And, I love all our ACs. But, making a decision like this should be left to Jeff alone.

I say this because most of the funding for TD comes from Token sales. Especially for creating props prior to TD tickets even going on sale. Many people here have invested heavily in TD through Token purchases. And, obviously, the sliders are imperfect for safely holding Tokens.

I have seen people here make statements that no proxies should be allowed. "They transmuted them they need to play them" has been a phrase used more than once on this topic. Often times made by people that don't have those types of Tokens yet. Not all the time, though.

But, here's the thing... even a casual player loaded with only UCs and Rares considers them a financial investment and their Tokens should be treated the same as if they were Relics or Legendaries.

So, with that said, does a DM have the right to refuse a proxy Token after being shown the real Token is in possession of the proxy user??

I know in MtG and similar CCG tournaments card sleeves have been legal for decades now. I know MtG doesn't allow proxies and card sleeves are great for protecting cards. But, no kind of protective covering on a TD Token will protect it from falling on the floor during combat sliding and getting lost. The only other option is proxy Tokens.

Does a DM have the right to make their own ruling and refuse them being used?? I know Jeff has a lot on his plate at any given moment. But, I truly think we need an official TPTB ruling on this that can't be overruled by a DM that wants to get a TPK so badly they bend the rules in their favor.

Opinions? Input? Thanks!!

I think a lot of the trepidation on the form around proxies comes from not wanting people experimenting with how to replicate convincing tokens as that knowledge could also be used for evil. Which we have had some trouble with recently,

That said I understand the desire to not want to literally throw hundreds or thousands of dollars down a dark hallway when your going to have to walk away in a few minutes.

Hopefully the magnetic sliders currently in prototyping help reduce the risk but until then I'm personally fine with proxies as long as the original tokens can also be produced for verification on demand (which I too thought was policy), I'd like to think were still a small enough community to police ourselves as it were.

I could have sworn there wss a post by Druegar or Jeff about not using proxies, but I cannot find it...yet.

My understanding is that proxies were officially disallowed a few years ago after never having been officially allowed.

I can understand the reticence about losing a valuable token in the dungeon.
No one wants that to happen.
I'm not sure it ever really happened.
Certainly if a valuable token hit the floor, people must work cooperatively to locate it.

We have plenty of relics and legendaries and we have never used proxies, nor have we ever lost a token in the dungeon in 10 years of playing.

Even if there is a post was if ever made official? Was it communicated to the DMs. I have seen players go through entire dungeons and not be questioned only to have the DM in room 7 throw a fit. We just need a clear definitive answer, that gets passed down to all DMs.

I personally don't think it's an issue as long as the player can produce the token. Maybe place a notation on the player card (I know that would be yet one more thing the coaches would have to worry about).

There is a post from Druegar concerning fakes and coaches but that is all I am finding from my phone. I did think there was something offical about proxy.

Jeff has not proclaimed a proxy policy.

Disbeeleaf wrote: ...nor have we ever lost a token in the dungeon in 10 years of playing.

Mr Murphy... DIsbeeleaf. DIsbeeleaf... Mr Murphy.

Druegar wrote: Jeff has not proclaimed a proxy policy.

Thanks, Druegar!!

I know this doesn't concern me. I just figured I'd make this thread because I personally know people running with proxies. Totally fake black and white ones. And, they aren't ones to ask here.

I do think with the number of Relics and Legendaries becoming more common than what one would think, Jeff might have to make a decree by GenCon 2017.

Druegar wrote: Jeff has not proclaimed a proxy policy.

If Jeff hasn't proclaimed a Proxy policy, and I'm assuming by extension True Dungeon doesn't have a Proxy policy, then it seems that DM's shouldn't be disallowing them.

Mike Steele wrote:

Druegar wrote: Jeff has not proclaimed a proxy policy.

If Jeff hasn't proclaimed a Proxy policy, and I'm assuming by extension True Dungeon doesn't have a Proxy policy, then it seems that DM's shouldn't be disallowing them.

You could equally argue that the DM's shouldn't be allowing them.

Or that the DM's should be able to verify that you have a real copy of the token.

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Druegar wrote: Jeff has not proclaimed a proxy policy.

If Jeff hasn't proclaimed a Proxy policy, and I'm assuming by extension True Dungeon doesn't have a Proxy policy, then it seems that DM's shouldn't be disallowing them.

You could equally argue that the DM's shouldn't be allowing them.

Or that the DM's should be able to verify that you have a real copy of the token.

I totally agree that DM's should be able to verify that you have a real copy of the token. If you don't have a copy of the real token, it seems to me it isn't a proxy, it's a forgery.