TOPIC: First time TD players feedback

Hi, I ran TD for the first time with a friend, and we had some thoughts and feedback that I'd like to pass along.

First, it was great! We had a really cool time, and were super impressed by the detail of the rooms, the designwork, the costumes, the actors, the DMs, and the puzzles and effects. Also, we were trying to meet someone before the game and were looking confused, and 3 different times TD volunteers came up to us on their own without us soliciting them directly to ask if we needed help or could do anything. It was super welcome!

We took the 101 class and our run was combat focused.

We were very nervous about playing, and the 101 class and coach and other players helped a lot, but not enough (partly because we only could get into a combat game and didn't know how "hard" it would be compared to the puzzle version).

I think the memorization/spellcraft should have examples somewhere. We were asked by the other players if we wanted to play a spellcaster, "you just have to memorize things." We both said no because we didn't know how HARD the memorization would be, and didn't have an example to judge for ourselves how comfortable we would be trying it, and certainly didn't want to be ineffective, letting down the rest of the party, or just not having fun because we weren't doing spells right.

The 101 class was great in explaining the combat system at least (they even used a slider board for an example), but if we hadn't taken the class, it wasn't really mentioned at all in the coaching session.

It is best to assume that no one has read any of the rules or taken the 101 class or been on this website, and TD is listed as no experience required on the Gencon site.

Our main "complaint" would be the system of allowing more experienced Players to pick their characters first. Has there been any thought towards another system of reward for experienced Players? We went and bought $30 of extra tokens before the run to be able to equip 1 or 2 characters of our preference. The 101 class told everyone to consider what class you would enjoy playing, but then we entered the coaching area with 8 other players who were more experienced. We knew, thanks to 101, that we would get to pick last. The other players did ask what we wanted to play, but when we answered with our preferences, we were told "Oh, 2 of us already picked those classes."

For trying to welcome new players into a game, this seems to be the opposite of what TD should be angling for. Instead of offering the entire range with explanations like, "Hello new players, what type of character would you like to play? Barbarians are straightforward, while wizards are challenging but I can quickly explain how they are fun to play, etc." It seems to me that more experienced players will both be able to spec out their characters with better gear for MULTIPLE classes, not necessarily their first pick, and should be trying to make new players as comfortable and excited as possible.

The other players did have gear to help us spec out our characters, but we had bought a few extra tokens beforehand with the hope of playing 1 class, with 1 backup class if we didn't get the first choice. We got neither of our choices.

I think that the 101 AND website should emphasize that it is unlikely you will get your first choice of class in a mixed experience group, and spend more time on explaining on how to play all different characters (especially in the 101 class), as otherwise it negates new players from making any decisions about your class, your role in the party, finding proper tokens, or the like. The only nod towards beginning players is that we could veto difficulty.

Another thing was the gear allocation. I know things are somewhat balanced since most players are running 4th level characters, but I was looking forward to the teamwork of "everyone get 10 random tokens, work together to try to best equip your party." Instead we personally drew some tokens that were applicable, our prebought class-specific tokens that weren't usable due to not getting our class choice, and a group of experienced players whose characters were equipped in nearly every slot. Then they immediately went about equipping their characters while the 2 of us were sitting there not even sure what items we should be using, or were allowed to use.

I have been thinking of some way to control this, I saw mention on the boards of limited token use by choice by some players, that was something I thought of myself, like maybe a limit on the number of tokens you could place on a token mat if you were running a TD on Normal, or a limit on the rarity of tokens if you were running Normal.

I know that some of our experiences were very subjective and arbitrary, and a few of our other players were very helpful and welcoming with good tips, suggestions, and equipment loans. But if those helpful players had not been in our group, I don't know if we would have wanted to come back to play again. The run itself was very fun and exciting and properly stressful, and was over too quick!

We look forward to playing again next year, and hope to hear some ideas about our feedback.

Welcome first timer. I was in your shoes in 2014, and I'm glad that you enjoyed yourself.

The reason more experienced players tend to get first pickt is a matter of two things.

1: We know that there can be competition, so we get there early
2. We have a lot of money and time invested in the tokens we've collected, so having to pick something different can really throw us off. This is why people with a lot of experience are permitted to have priority.

That being said. I do have some advice so that you can get a better chance of picking your favorite. Not guaranteed of course, but nometheless;

1. Arrive early. Unless someone has enough experience to guarantee their first pick (you too can earn this privilege after running enough times, make sure you update your experience profile on here) you'll probably beat out other newcomers.
2. Prior to the con, there's a section of this forum where people organize groups to run with. Some veterans buy out entire runs for the purpose of running new players with them. If you can get into one of these, you may be able to come to an agreement ahead of time with others in your run. Some people may even be willing to run with limited gear at a lower difficulty with you.

And finally, I'm glad that you managed to find a group that loaned you equipment. Makes a world of difference when you're with people who want to help you out.

Hope you enjoy TD again in the coming years.

Regarding the class choice in pick-up groups. I find that it usually comes down to who gets to the room first, rather than experience level. Only once have I been in a run where someone claimed a class and then later another player came in and said "I'm 3rd level so I'm going to take that class from you". Usually whoever gets there first picks, and starts preparing, and the following players adapt to what's remaining. Once you are in the mindset of "I'm going to be Paladin!" and start laying out those tokens, it's difficult to switch. So I hope you can understand that.

To avoid this entirely many experienced players buy-out full runs and organize groups on these forums ahead of time. We pre-pick classes (and dungeon difficulty). That way there are no arguments or disappointments in the coaching room.

Firstly, let me say that I'm certainly glad you had fun, and I hope we can do even better for you next time.

Unfortunately, the one thing that TD cannot account for is the people you are running with, particularly in pick up groups. I have some amazing experiences with that, and some bad ones. Regarding the Coaching, I do know they were filming a new training video this year with the head trainer, for the coaches use I imagine. That guy certainly knew how to whip a new group into combat shape in record time. Hopefully that will help in the future to explain the aspects of combat that were missed for you.

I cannot help but disagree on some of your views though, it would be unfair and unrewarding to prevent a player from using all their tokens they've earned and amassed over the years by restricting them. For example, I enjoy collecting the tokens and making a cohesive build. However,I have friends who were running their first or second time, or are not as interested in buying tokens as I am. Thus we play on normal. The rules you propose would mean there is no reason for me to collect tokens at all.

Regarding class choice, to me at least, even more than level, it is very dependent on who gets there first. I'm a 4th level player, but if I get there late, and someone had claimed my favorite class, I would generally go just see whats left. Maybe politely ask, but if they say no, I'm not going to overlord my level on them, And I do bring printout character sheets for my top 5 classes. However, I do make a point of arriving early so that I can claim my preferred class. From your writing, I would conclude you arrived after them.

Now that you are on the forums though, come ticket sale time next year, I would suggest to maybe look at the groups forming here. You may be able to find a full group where you can guarantee your class choice, or find a sealed run. But yes, unfortunately when you PUG, you never fully know what you will get.

First up thanks for the feedback. Us old timers have a somewhat tilted view of things so its important to get outsidr perspectives as often as possible.

In terms of class choices remember its only lv3+ players who can pull rank. If 2 lv3+ players pull rank it goes to a roll off regardless of their level. That said most old timers wont invoke the privilage as it tends to lead to sour feelings in the dungeon which can hurt group cohesiveness.

If your able to next year also check out these forums. There are usually runs with people looking for more players where the classes are pre decided.

All that said hopefully you had fun. We try our best to be welcoming but I know some personalities and be a bit overwhelming.

Think about creating flexible builds. A fighter build can do either fighter, Paladin, and Cleric with minor tweaking. Barbarian is within reach with some armor and weapon tweaking. Gear is the same for either wizard. At normal level monks almost don't need any gear.

Harlax wrote: Think about creating flexible builds. A fighter build can do either fighter, Paladin, and Cleric with minor tweaking. Barbarian is within reach with some armor and weapon tweaking. Gear is the same for either wizard. At normal level monks almost don't need any gear.

This is a good way to go about it. My favorite class is currently the Dwarven Fighter. However, that same build works for Fighter and Paladin as well. Swap a handful of tokens, and I'm back to my monk. Swap about half and I'm at my Bard.

If you're worried about not getting any particular class, it might be good to start generally with Belt/Earcuff/Rings etc that can be used throughout most/all classes

Thank you for the feedback.

Welcome to the forums.

-THOT

Thanks everyone, to be clear we really enjoyed the TD itself!

The TD 101 class had suggested showing up early to give time to work on classes and such.

We were the first 2 people there, 30 minutes before start time. The coach didn't show up for 15 minutes or so, and we were just sitting there as the other players came in, all of whom were 3rd level or higher. We did not know what were supposed to do. We set up our tokens on our sheet as best we could, but didn't even see the character sheets until the other players started picking. I think the coach brought them in with him.

And again, a lot of your advice is based on knowing to come to this forum, to coordinate with other players, to do tons of research and to take the TD 101 class.

As I said, the TD listing on Gencon says no experience needed.

Not much of that solves the problem for people who just buy tickets and show up (probably not knowing they could come 30 minutes early). We were more prepared than many first timers.

Some experience players and/or big spenders are locked into playing just one class or 2 because like you that is the tokens they have.

And you just need to make it to level 3 to have the same picking preference as a level 7 player (I choose this because I became a 7th this year...yeah).

Lastly I will say that some of us are fortunately not to care what class we play. In every run I did this year 8 and a grind I always picked last my class. I am fortunate that I can do that and I know not all can, which is why I pick last.

Glad you have fun and will be back!

Pick up groups can be great or so-so.

Prearranged groups are very fun in my experience.

Jared wrote: Thanks everyone, to be clear we really enjoyed the TD itself!

We were the first 2 people there, 30 minutes before start time. The coach didn't show up for 15 minutes or so, and we were just sitting there as the other players came in, all of whom were 3rd level or higher.

This.

As another first time player this year, a similar situation became a huge barrier for myself and my partner. Our experience was pretty close: I coordinated with an incredible forumite for tickets, went to the 101 class, learned that I should prepare for a class of my preference (but bought tokens enough for two, to try to be accommodating), arrived first to the training room and laid out my character sheet. We felt pretty good. Nervous, but pretty good.

Then a group of 7-year-players came in. They asked if I had a preference of classes, and I suggested the two for which I had prepared. I was then told that other participants, who had not yet arrived, would be playing those classes before being handed a spec sheet (but no tokens?) for a different class, that none of my tokens were now applicable, and to set them aside.

Oh, uh, okay.

At this point, no DM is in the room. Everyone is frantically putting their tokens in slots, with ten minutes left before we ship off to training, and I'm staring at a sheet of paper listing a bunch of tokens I guess I'm supposed to have, but clearly don't. Cool.

The other group announces they plan to run Hardcore. I remind them that the two of us are new, now not-appropriately spec'd, and would prefer Normal. We get eyerolls and grumbles.

I get that this is a player-synergy thing and ideally, I should roll in here with six friends or coordinated forumites to have the best experience, sure, but something is up if two excited, somewhat-prepared, and ready-to-look-like-noobs players feel instantly uncomfortable and confused before the game even begins.

This could have been prevented if a DM was in the room. At the very least, it would have been a neutralizing presence, and at the very best, I could have comfortably asked questions about my assigned class and token selection. I don't think newbie players should get pick priority or that tokens should be limited, but more accessible (and mitigating) resources could make a massive difference.