TOPIC: Party saves

There are currently two methods i see being used for saving throws when the entire party is targetted: every player rolls their own OR a single roll for every player.
I dont think having every player roll has been used for many years as that simply took too much time, and time is the party killer. But it seems that the single roll for everyone has just been accepted as inevitable. How about we brainstorm something better?

Why do i think it is a problem? Combat will often become too swingy. If the single roll is low, everyone fails and the party is devastated, but a high roll means everyone succeeds and combat becomes too easy. There is potential to get a roll in the mid-zone where some players succeed and others fail, but that will only be some of the time and sadly it will always be those same party members on the failing side.

There really should be a way for some party members to succeed and others fail, and hopefully not be so rigid on which side you fall.

My suggestion; have a pile of small(regular size) D20 for any DM using an AoE. Either the DM rolls them all at once or have one player toss them all on a tray. The DM just runs down the save line of the party card, grabs whichever die is close to add and announce save/fail, then toss that die to the side before moving on to next player&die.

Just in case someone wasn't sure, the current system is a single roll, but each person's modifier is applied to it individually. E.g., a DC 15 Reflex save is required to avoid damage. The party representative rolls a 12. I have a +2 to my Reflex saves so I fail, but you have a +3 and you succeed. Same roll, different results.

we'd have to color code them(IE Barbarian is red, etc) and even then it's time consuming.

If the players want the chance of individual luck vs time saving, we can look into it.
Myself I'd make a small tube/box out of Plexi that had room for each dice to roll, but separated them, so the DM could shake the stick, and swiftly check it against the party card, with ease, and not risk losing dice/etc.

Multiple dice or multiple rolls takes too long.

A lot of players aren't paying attention or aren't around the combat board. Dragging them here so everyone can roll is a pain.

Save Stick!.png[/attachment]

EDIT - Call it post con sleep-dep or just skimming the thread, but I didn't see that Barry literally just said this. Great idea Barry!

What about a 10 compartment box with an acrylic lid that goes in the same order as the party card. Inside each compartment is a D20 and on the lid can be written the 3 save stats of the character (written on in dry/wet erase in the coaching/training room).

Party needs a save? shake the thing like a rain stick, put it on the table, DM goes down the line without having multiple things to look at / cross reference. DM can just call out who saves/fails and move on. Don't need multiple people to pay attention as Incognito pointed out (rightly so).

Would it be something else that characters have to carry? Sure. But 10 people... someone could carry the Save Stick!

I could imagine a device that had 10 capsuled d20 in it, that can all be rolled and resolved with one shake.

But - the DM would have to track their eyes from the card to the die and back 10 times - that would take a long time.

Until we get to a digital party card I'm not sure what could be done.

I guess you could have two dice, one for the fighters and one for the spellcasters or something to reduce the swingyness.


I agree the swingyness is a problem.

In my thought, the saves would be on the box - so the only thing the DM needs is the target number in his/her mind.

Druegar wrote: Just in case someone wasn't sure, the current system is a single roll, but each person's modifier is applied to it individually. E.g., a DC 15 Reflex save is required to avoid damage. The party representative rolls a 12. I have a +2 to my Reflex saves so I fail, but you have a +3 and you succeed. Same roll, different results.

I think this method works just fine.

Rob F wrote:

Druegar wrote: Just in case someone wasn't sure, the current system is a single roll, but each person's modifier is applied to it individually. E.g., a DC 15 Reflex save is required to avoid damage. The party representative rolls a 12. I have a +2 to my Reflex saves so I fail, but you have a +3 and you succeed. Same roll, different results.

I think this method works just fine.

With the possible rerolls out there, individual rolls seems cumbersome.

The current method is swingy, but I prefer extra time.

Plus, it's fun to blame whomever rolls the 1 or 2 (in a good natured way)

Matthew Hayward wrote: I could imagine a device that had 10 capsuled d20 in it, that can all be rolled and resolved with one shake.

But - the DM would have to track their eyes from the card to the die and back 10 times - that would take a long time.

They already kind of do that for hits and damage. If the classes are in order in this box I don't think it would be too bad. Yes it would be a bit slower than one roll for the whole party, but way faster than everyone rolling individually, and it resolves the swinginess issue.

Barry Welling wrote: we'd have to color code them(IE Barbarian is red, etc) and even then it's time consuming.

If the players want the chance of individual luck vs time saving, we can look into it.
Myself I'd make a small tube/box out of Plexi that had room for each dice to roll, but separated them, so the DM could shake the stick, and swiftly check it against the party card, with ease, and not risk losing dice/etc.

Just to clarify, my idea did not have any die associated with any particular player; there is just a pile of d20 getting rolled at once to give an assortment of results. The DM would start at top of party card, bard, and look at the +save while grabbing whatever die is near.

...however, that save-stick is an interesting idea that avoids lots of loose dice.

Druegar wrote: Just in case someone wasn't sure, the current system is a single roll, but each person's modifier is applied to it individually. E.g., a DC 15 Reflex save is required to avoid damage. The party representative rolls a 12. I have a +2 to my Reflex saves so I fail, but you have a +3 and you succeed. Same roll, different results.

I will add, at least on higher levels, players can invoke their UR Figurines for individual re-rolls when the group roll is undesirable.

Ed