TOPIC: Wand question(s)

In regards to:

Jeff Martin wrote: Wands

The first thing I want to address are the “chargeless” wands first printed in 2018. Although we loved seeing more wands being used, we feel that unlimited-use wands are not the ideal path going forward. Starting at Origins 2019, all wands will now be consumable, but wands will no longer have a fixed number of charges. When a player wants to use a wand (old or new), they hand the wand token to the DM. Actions permitting, the player may use this wand as much as they desire for the rest of the room. At the end of the room the wand is placed in the consumables bucket.

If you have a Medallion of Mystic Mouth you will only have to place ONE Wand on the combat board so that you can use each one -- each round. At the end of the combat, the Wand token is consumed.

To use Medallion of Mystic Mouth (MoMM) do I put up one token on the board and use that for both my main and Mystic Mouth wand usage? Assuming yes I do 16 - 20 points per round, no other items, just a neck slot, an ioun Stone Slot, and one wand each combat. Do I need to provide two wands to do this, one for my basic useage and one for the MoMM usage? Do both go into the bucket at the end if so? If I put up one wand, and change, does the first wand and the new wand, or both get consumed? If not both, if the rarity changed does the highest rarity go in the bucket, the first wand, or the last wand? I could see a way to reward smart play if it was first wand, and MoMM or changed wands were not consumed, I could also see the point that every wand used is consumed, more appealing if MoMM uses the same wand as I am main handing, less so if I lose two wands and my neck slot. A neck slot that is about to get a legendary wizard item in it, how very sad indeed.

Side questions that our groups is curious about:
The wand not as a turn in, was it to offer a build option other than MEC wizard build? Was it just to remove the punch from the dungeon? Also is the return back to turn in because of a significant decrease in scroll use? If so, was that possibly because of the not personally deem(ing) it worthy with regard to using a scroll vs the no token lost wand and spell use.

If the turn in rate is what is wanted, could wands be a spell bonus focus, an item that changes the memorization success damage done to that of the wand damage? So it would be one turn in per combat room still, but would be a larger reward on spells. It might also change the bonus damage to the type of the wand or it could just be additional damage, I'm spit-balling here. I get that it would require a MoMM fix of some sort, but fluorite cube would still be valid potentially, it might need to be brought down in power I'm not sure honestly on that game space, bards might argue that 4 vs 3 isn't worth a wand turn in, and an ioun stone slot but 5 might be. In this idea it's almost like ammo for spells, still requiring spells to be used which would mean scrolls are the spell substitute saving card resources and wands are spell ammo. MEC might need to be addressed in such a future game state, and I have no idea what's coming in 2020.

I want to add that our group is okay with the changes, we're just curious and want to know the limitations and bounds that we will be required to know and abide by going forward. I'm a little unhappy that it only went for one year, although I get that it's four conventions so it's not one data point. It did feel like one data point for little ol me.

Thanks for helping me understand the state of wands.

macXdmg wrote: In regards to:

Jeff Martin wrote: Wands

The first thing I want to address are the “chargeless” wands first printed in 2018. Although we loved seeing more wands being used, we feel that unlimited-use wands are not the ideal path going forward. Starting at Origins 2019, all wands will now be consumable, but wands will no longer have a fixed number of charges. When a player wants to use a wand (old or new), they hand the wand token to the DM. Actions permitting, the player may use this wand as much as they desire for the rest of the room. At the end of the room the wand is placed in the consumables bucket.

If you have a Medallion of Mystic Mouth you will only have to place ONE Wand on the combat board so that you can use each one -- each round. At the end of the combat, the Wand token is consumed.

To use Medallion of Mystic Mouth (MoMM) do I put up one token on the board and use that for both my main and Mystic Mouth wand usage? Assuming yes I do 16 - 20 points per round, no other items, just a neck slot, an ioun Stone Slot, and one wand each combat. Do I need to provide two wands to do this, one for my basic useage and one for the MoMM usage? Do both go into the bucket at the end if so? If I put up one wand, and change, does the first wand and the new wand, or both get consumed? If not both, if the rarity changed does the highest rarity go in the bucket, the first wand, or the last wand? I could see a way to reward smart play if it was first wand, and MoMM or changed wands were not consumed, I could also see the point that every wand used is consumed, more appealing if MoMM uses the same wand as I am main handing, less so if I lose two wands and my neck slot. A neck slot that is about to get a legendary wizard item in it, how very sad indeed.

Side questions that our groups is curious about:
The wand not as a turn in, was it to offer a build option other than MEC wizard build? Was it just to remove the punch from the dungeon? Also is the return back to turn in because of a significant decrease in scroll use? If so, was that possibly because of the

Warning: Spoiler! [ Click to expand ] [ Click to hide ]

lack of groups or swarms that scrolls were specifically mentioned to meet the need of? I remember last year they idea was single target would be for wands and multi target was the space for scrolls. The giants being the one "swarm" that I recognized at Gencon and did

not personally deem(ing) it worthy with regard to using a scroll vs the no token lost wand and spell use.

If the turn in rate is what is wanted, could wands be a spell bonus focus, an item that changes the memorization success damage done to that of the wand damage? So it would be one turn in per combat room still, but would be a larger reward on spells. It might also change the bonus damage to the type of the wand or it could just be additional damage, I'm spit-balling here. I get that it would require a MoMM fix of some sort, but fluorite cube would still be valid potentially, it might need to be brought down in power I'm not sure honestly on that game space, bards might argue that 4 vs 3 isn't worth a wand turn in, and an ioun stone slot but 5 might be. In this idea it's almost like ammo for spells, still requiring spells to be used which would mean scrolls are the spell substitute saving card resources and wands are spell ammo. MEC might need to be addressed in such a future game state, and I have no idea what's coming in 2020.

I want to add that our group is okay with the changes, we're just curious and want to know the limitations and bounds that we will be required to know and abide by going forward. I'm a little unhappy that it only went for one year, although I get that it's four conventions so it's not one data point. It did feel like one data point for little ol me.

Thanks for helping me understand the state of wands.

My understanding based on the process is this.

MoMM will be getting new text before origins that make it where basically turn in a wand and use it on action and free action as many times as there are rounds in the room. Then the wand is gone forever, even if used only for 1 round of combat. If you use a wand and figure out it’s not effective against a monster and change wand types mid room then both wands are consumed.

The Ioun Stone just adds to a pool of damage. So if you have a wand that targets all monsters then it gives you +2 to use on a monster of your choice in the room per activation of the wand. So if you use the wand 2 times per round for 3 rounds you would still get your +12 damage for the room out of the ISFC but how you apply that damage is your choice.

If you have a Medallion of Mystic Mouth , you will only have to place your primary wand on the combat board. The insta-swapped wand token is not consumed by using Medallion of Mystic Mouth, but still must be shown to the DM. At the end of the combat, only the primary wand token is consumed.

This change hasn't been put in the TDb yet because the rules changeover won't happen until Origins 2019.

Druegar wrote: If you have a Medallion of Mystic Mouth , you will only have to place your primary wand on the combat board. The insta-swapped wand token is not consumed by using Medallion of Mystic Mouth, but still must be shown to the DM. At the end of the combat, only the primary wand token is consumed.

This change hasn't been put in the TDb yet because the rules changeover won't happen until Origins 2019.

So, if one wants to use spells, them MoMM as a free action, is the free action wand consumed in that scenario?

I would think so, otherwise we are back to chargeless wands again.

Yes, how does Medallion of Mystic Mouth(MoMM) treat wands that are used with spells or scrolls? Does the MoMM make wands essentially unlimited? I could keep exactly one of every wand and feel rewarded for not making the mage legendary neck piece or spending any wands, and my character card would still see use. I like this a lot actually, please be so.

Here is my understanding:

Without MoMM, a wand that is put on the table can be used for a primary action every round in a single room. At the end of the room, the wand is tossed into the bucket, regardless of the number of uses.

With MoMM, the wand user has two choices:

1. A single wand can be used once per round, either as a primary action or free action, until the end of the room. This single wand is tossed into the bucket at the end of the room, regardless of the number of uses. If the wand is used as the free action, the caster can use the normal action however she wants (spell, scroll, etc.).

Or

2. Two wands can be used per round, one as a primary action and one as a free action, until the end of the room. One wand must be placed on the table and gets tossed into the bucket at the end of the room, regardless of the number of uses. The second wand has to be shown to the DM but is retained by the player at the end of the room, regardless of the number of uses.


Is that right? While I dislike all the zigging and zagging that has occurred these last two years on wand rules, I appreciate the compromise of only having to actually consume one wand per room to get max benefit with MoMM instead of losing two wands in the room. Having to actually present a second wand is a bit of an annoyance (it would probably be simpler if MoMM allowed multiple uses of the same wand in a round), but this isn’t a big deal.

Boilerplate wrote: Here is my understanding:

Without MoMM, a wand that is put on the table can be used for a primary action every round in a single room. At the end of the room, the wand is tossed into the bucket, regardless of the number of uses.

With MoMM, the wand user has two choices:

1. A single wand can be used once per round, either as a primary action or free action, until the end of the room. This single wand is tossed into the bucket at the end of the room, regardless of the number of uses. If the wand is used as the free action, the caster can use the normal action however she wants (spell, scroll, etc.).

Or

2. Two wands can be used per round, one as a primary action and one as a free action, until the end of the room. One wand must be placed on the table and gets tossed into the bucket at the end of the room, regardless of the number of uses. The second wand has to be shown to the DM but is retained by the player at the end of the room, regardless of the number of uses.


Is that right? While I dislike all the zigging and zagging that has occurred these last two years on wand rules, I appreciate the compromise of only having to actually consume one wand per room to get max benefit with MoMM instead of losing two wands in the room. Having to actually present a second wand is a bit of an annoyance (it would probably be simpler if MoMM allowed multiple uses of the same wand in a round), but this isn’t a big deal.

The zig zagging allows me to use a common wand round 1, a rare wand for MoMM, and only bin one rapper. If this is how MoMM works I can work with my first round being small stupid damage, I can spell and big wand the rest if that is the case, not having to shenanigans the first round would be nicer and would save me that rapper, but if this is the game I can work with it.

Jeff updated the main post about wand changes but I thought I repost it here to make sure people saw it

Wands

The first thing I want to address are the “chargeless” wands first printed in 2018. Although we loved seeing more wands being used, we feel that unlimited-use wands are not the ideal path going forward. Starting at Origins 2019, all wands will now be consumable, but wands will no longer have a fixed number of charges. When a player wants to use a wand (old or new), they hand the wand token to the DM. Actions permitting, the player may use this wand as much as they desire for the rest of the room. At the end of the room the wand is placed in the consumables bucket.

If you have a Medallion of Mystic Mouth you will only have to place ONE Wand on the combat board so that you can use each one -- each round. At the end of the combat, the Wand token is consumed.

*** If you have a Medallion of Mystic Mouth you will have to place all Wand tokens (that were used during combat) on the combat board as they are used. Like other magic items that allow the use of an item as a Free Action, all Wands used with a MoMM will be consumed (and turned in) at the end of the combat. Any Wand tokens employed during a combat must be placed on the combat board. At the end of the combat, ALL Wand tokens the were used are consumed. ***

*** This a change to the rule announced early. We are doing it this way to keep it simple -- and treating it just like other "Use with a Free Action" items. This is being done to avoid conflicts and to keep the rules streamlined. (edited 10/08/18)

Stoner wrote: Jeff updated the main post about wand changes but I thought I repost it here to make sure people saw it

Wands

The first thing I want to address are the “chargeless” wands first printed in 2018. Although we loved seeing more wands being used, we feel that unlimited-use wands are not the ideal path going forward. Starting at Origins 2019, all wands will now be consumable, but wands will no longer have a fixed number of charges. When a player wants to use a wand (old or new), they hand the wand token to the DM. Actions permitting, the player may use this wand as much as they desire for the rest of the room. At the end of the room the wand is placed in the consumables bucket.

If you have a Medallion of Mystic Mouth you will only have to place ONE Wand on the combat board so that you can use each one -- each round. At the end of the combat, the Wand token is consumed.

*** If you have a Medallion of Mystic Mouth you will have to place all Wand tokens (that were used during combat) on the combat board as they are used. Like other magic items that allow the use of an item as a Free Action, all Wands used with a MoMM will be consumed (and turned in) at the end of the combat. Any Wand tokens employed during a combat must be placed on the combat board. At the end of the combat, ALL Wand tokens the were used are consumed. ***

*** This a change to the rule announced early. We are doing it this way to keep it simple -- and treating it just like other "Use with a Free Action" items. This is being done to avoid conflicts and to keep the rules streamlined. (edited 10/08/18)

Thanks! It still seems confusing, can you provide the link to that post?

macXdmg wrote: Yes, how does Medallion of Mystic Mouth(MoMM) treat wands that are used with spells or scrolls? Does the MoMM make wands essentially unlimited? I could keep exactly one of every wand and feel rewarded for not making the mage legendary neck piece or spending any wands, and my character card would still see use. I like this a lot actually, please be so.

I don't recall seeing anything specific about a Legendary neck piece for wizards. I think Jeff mentioned the Barbarian, Monk and one other class but still left it a bit open for the others. I would have to find the post though.

First Post was updated , and I can’t tell if I am proud, or ashamed. It is good to know easily that wands, no matter what wand or UR you have, are consumed.

Thanks everyone, and I believe I owe some of you an apology. I have a feeling some volunteers will thank me.

macXdmg wrote: First Post was updated , and I can’t tell if I am proud, or ashamed. It is good to know easily that wands, no matter what wand or UR you have, are consumed.

Thanks everyone, and I believe I owe some of you an apology. I have a feeling some volunteers will thank me.

I think it's good that loophole was closed. I was thinking it did open up the possibility of using a recent wand for your regular turn, and a Wand of Cure Light Wounds with MoMM, and never have to turn in the Wand of Cure Light Wounds (which is the only way I'd ever use it).

It does sound like you can no longer use the same Wand for your regular turn and your MoMM effect, and just turn that Wand in. It sounds like if you are using a Wand on your normal action and MoMM on your free action, that you'll be turning in two Wands per room.