TOPIC: What is that monster's AC OR Why does my +18 miss?

So again this year I had several situations where slides of 15+ on characters with +18 or so to hit missed the monster.

This again leaves me scratching my head and feeling like some combat DMs are either intentionally BSing slides to not let the monster die or just fail to calculate attack rolls (which boggles my mind)

Is there any harm in letting people know the target AC of a monster on each level of play you are running? We can't fudge rolls and the stat cards are already calculated. It would make things a LOT easier when attacking. If I need a 20 to hit I know I'm better off sliding to bump people. If I need a 6 I know I'm aiming center mass.

Even better if I feel the DM is cheating or screwing up (which has been a question in at least 1 run each year) I can EASILY calculate my own attack roll and know if it's a hit or miss.

Is there a reason it's still hidden? It seems like it'd help resolve some of the issues we see.

I had a similar situation where I slid over a 13 with my +13 bonus and Bard song going. The DM said I missed. Luckily for me I had someone in my party that DMd that room... So I asked him what the AC was. I then went to the DM and said it should have been a hit. He asked me what AC I hit and admitted his mistake.

Things like this happened all weekend. I'm sure some of it was DMs not expecting an Elf Wizard to have a +13 to hit... That's why it's written on the sheet... Read it.

In the dungeon, there were some monsters with AC 32+ or AC 33+, on Nightmare.

As Chris noted, it is easy for DM's to underestimate character classes with unconventional builds.

DM's may also see a low slide value (say a "5") and not realize that might actually be a hit!

It is also easy to accidentally read the wrong melee vs missile column.

Chris Von Wahlde wrote: I had a similar situation where I slid over a 13 with my +13 bonus and Bard song going. The DM said I missed. Luckily for me I had someone in my party that DMd that room... So I asked him what the AC was. I then went to the DM and said it should have been a hit. He asked me what AC I hit and admitted his mistake.

Things like this happened all weekend. I'm sure some of it was DMs not expecting an Elf Wizard to have a +13 to hit... That's why it's written on the sheet... Read it.

I played elf wizard this year in a pug with +13 to hit as well

FiannaTiger wrote:

Chris Von Wahlde wrote: I had a similar situation where I slid over a 13 with my +13 bonus and Bard song going. The DM said I missed. Luckily for me I had someone in my party that DMd that room... So I asked him what the AC was. I then went to the DM and said it should have been a hit. He asked me what AC I hit and admitted his mistake.

Things like this happened all weekend. I'm sure some of it was DMs not expecting an Elf Wizard to have a +13 to hit... That's why it's written on the sheet... Read it.

I played elf wizard this year in a pug with +13 to hit as well

I had at least 1 DM on each run ask, "Why is the Elf Wizard sliding his staff???". Which I would have to respond with... Check my stats. "Oh".

Incognito wrote: In the dungeon, there were some monsters with AC 32+ or AC 33+, on Nightmare.

As Chris noted, it is easy for DM's to underestimate character classes with unconventional builds.

DM's may also see a low slide value (say a "5") and not realize that might actually be a hit!

It is also easy to accidentally read the wrong melee vs missile column.

Honestly the run I am on cost $520 to purchase. Check the damn card please.

Is there any reason to deny the request? I see this issue consistently EVERY YEAR with combat DMs. If I know the AC I'm aiming for I can let the DM know if it's a hit or not.

*and having to constantly correct the DM that no, my static AC 15 slide spell did not miss the target with my slide of an 8 gets a tad annoying*

I also hit with my sliding spells on an 8. Haven't had a DM question me. I usually tell them I need the 8 when I have them mark the spell off the card. I can't remember the last time I actually slid a weapon attack - might have been a dagger of throwing.

Please be patient with the DMs. If you have a question, ask them to double-check your to-hit bonus.

And yes, giving the AC of the monster is problematic. It breaks the fourth wall, it is different based on difficulty level, and could change over the weekend if the monster is too tough or not tough enough.

Well, if it breaks the fourth wall....


(Because pretty much nothing about the combat system doesn't.)

bpsymington wrote: I also hit with my sliding spells on an 8. Haven't had a DM question me. I usually tell them I need the 8 when I have them mark the spell off the card. I can't remember the last time I actually slid a weapon attack - might have been a dagger of throwing.

Please be patient with the DMs. If you have a question, ask them to double-check your to-hit bonus.

And yes, giving the AC of the monster is problematic. It breaks the fourth wall, it is different based on difficulty level, and could change over the weekend if the monster is too tough or not tough enough.

Constantly asking the DM to double-check, use ranged stat, etc is annoying for me. I can't imagine how annoyed they get about it too. Not to mention the extra time used.
...just tell us the freaking AC.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Is there any reason to deny the request? I see this issue consistently EVERY YEAR with combat DMs. If I know the AC I'm aiming for I can let the DM know if it's a hit or not.

*and having to constantly correct the DM that no, my static AC 15 slide spell did not miss the target with my slide of an 8 gets a tad annoying*

bpsymington wrote: And yes, giving the AC of the monster is problematic. It breaks the fourth wall, it is different based on difficulty level, and could change over the weekend if the monster is too tough or not tough enough.

I agree with Brian that giving the AC (or +hit or exact HP) of the monster is usually problematic.

Players shouldn't need to be given an individualized tutorial on exactly which portion of the combat board they need to hit (some experimentation should be encouraged instead).

And for those doing multiple runs, players shouldn't be given the information so that they can min-max their stats for following runs.

Incognito wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Is there any reason to deny the request? I see this issue consistently EVERY YEAR with combat DMs. If I know the AC I'm aiming for I can let the DM know if it's a hit or not.

*and having to constantly correct the DM that no, my static AC 15 slide spell did not miss the target with my slide of an 8 gets a tad annoying*

bpsymington wrote: And yes, giving the AC of the monster is problematic. It breaks the fourth wall, it is different based on difficulty level, and could change over the weekend if the monster is too tough or not tough enough.

I agree with Brian that giving the AC (or +hit or exact HP) of the monster is usually problematic.

Players shouldn't need to be given an individualized tutorial on exactly which portion of the combat board they need to hit (some experimentation should be encouraged instead).

And for those doing multiple runs, players shouldn't be given the information so that they can min-max their stats for following runs.

"Man that was "odd" you don't hit"

I slip with an improved backstab, critted an did over 110 points if damage. I missed the mind flayer. Lol. Whatever, it is a game...