TOPIC: I'm really surprised how many groups run on Normal

OK, this is probably old news, but remember this is my first year volunteering.

I was surprised how many groups who had decent tokens and experience ran on Normal difficulty. In Underdark Room 5 I had several Normal-difficulty groups kill my monster in one round, or nearly do so. I think these groups are missing out on more fun and a larger challenge just out of fear of dying. The group that killed him in one round I talked to and they said they usually just do one run per year so somebody doesn't want to end up dead in room #1. I suggested they pick up 5-10 Mystic Mushrooms while they are cheap and then they could run Hardcore and in the unlikely event somebody dies they could rev them.

I'm not trying to force people to go Hardcore, but I do think it would be more fun, and here is why. When the party is over-equipped for normal, as the DM, I'd have to resolve tons of hits each round, and then the monster dies in one or two rounds. So they don't get to slide much and each individual hit doesn't really matter that much since the monster dies so easily.

But if the same group ran at Hardcore fewer of the slides would hit, making the ones that do hit more exciting. The rounds would go quicker because there are so few hits to work through, which means they could get 3-4 rounds of combat rather than 1-2. Everybody gets to do more and possibly have more fun.

Admittedly in some cases the groups had one or two newbies with them, but even so in Hardcore mode a single hit is unlikely to kill a newbie as long as you work together to keep them healed.

Kirk, I think you are right, but many New players have a hard time hitting and surviving normal monster and even if protected by nice high level who do everything to let them have fun, can still die or feel useless. None of my "mixed" groups had a problem, but after reading the "problem" thread, I would wager this was an issue.

One strange example, a party with 2 nightmare level characters and a fully equipped hard core player could not kill the Mind Flayer as out of 12 hits from the above characters, only 3 went through (for 110+ points). The new players hit about 25 times (16-17 went through) for about 6 points each and we missed killing it by 12 points I think. while the players liked the run they were sad all their hits on Flayer lad "didn't really matter"

^^This^^

I posted on another topic (which admittedly became quite long winded and was probably not read by most >.<)about the difficulty to get a full group of people together when so many of the best time slots are taken by veteran players setting up 10-12 runs of their own.

I would LOVE to run a harder difficulty, but the way the system is set up if just one person wants to run normal, that's the way it has to be. And the fact that I don't run alone, but also don't have enough people to fill my own run out makes things pretty tough. I tried searching the forums for a group that had the classes available that we wanted but only found one (which we did 2 runs with). Our other runs were relegated to normal due to new players.

Kirk Bauer wrote: OK, this is probably old news, but remember this is my first year volunteering.

I was surprised how many groups who had decent tokens and experience ran on Normal difficulty. In Underdark Room 5 I had several Normal-difficulty groups kill my monster in one round, or nearly do so. I think these groups are missing out on more fun and a larger challenge just out of fear of dying. The group that killed him in one round I talked to and they said they usually just do one run per year so somebody doesn't want to end up dead in room #1. I suggested they pick up 5-10 Mystic Mushrooms while they are cheap and then they could run Hardcore and in the unlikely event somebody dies they could rev them.

I'm not trying to force people to go Hardcore, but I do think it would be more fun, and here is why. When the party is over-equipped for normal, as the DM, I'd have to resolve tons of hits each round, and then the monster dies in one or two rounds. So they don't get to slide much and each individual hit doesn't really matter that much since the monster dies so easily.

But if the same group ran at Hardcore fewer of the slides would hit, making the ones that do hit more exciting. The rounds would go quicker because there are so few hits to work through, which means they could get 3-4 rounds of combat rather than 1-2. Everybody gets to do more and possibly have more fun.

Admittedly in some cases the groups had one or two newbies with them, but even so in Hardcore mode a single hit is unlikely to kill a newbie as long as you work together to keep them healed.

Kirk remember you were DMing the puzzle side. There are people that play TD just for the puzzles and don't care about the combat so want it done as easily as possible. I don't know this to be true but I bet there are more normal runs on puzzle than combat.


That said, I did take my group on a number run for our sealed run. I am glad it was only normal because they hated it and we didn't have the easiest time staying alive (though we did make it to room 7 and defeat the boss it was not easily done). Room 6 was a bitch.

Ryan Short wrote: I posted on another topic (which admittedly became quite long winded and was probably not read by most >.<)about the difficulty to get a full group of people together when so many of the best time slots are taken by veteran players setting up 10-12 runs of their own.

"Best time slot?" What is considered a "best" time slot? I am genuinely curious.

I would LOVE to run a harder difficulty, but the way the system is set up if just one person wants to run normal, that's the way it has to be. And the fact that I don't run alone, but also don't have enough people to fill my own run out makes things pretty tough. I tried searching the forums for a group that had the classes available that we wanted but only found one (which we did 2 runs with). Our other runs were relegated to normal due to new players.

Ryan, I am sorry to hear you had trouble finding harder difficulty runs. And I agree the system for determining difficulty is non-ideal. I only play Nightmare, so it's annoying that setting up a Nightmare run is overly complicated.

However, I have found that in the months and weeks leading up to GenCon, usually there are a plethora of available open slots through forum threads alone.

Also, it helps to have a little bit of flexibility in terms of class. If you and a friend can only run a specific class each, then that inherently limits your options. If there are a few different classes that you and your friend can do, it becomes far, far easier to join random forum ones.

Best of luck next year!

I would also add I would be surprised if many newer players, even some all rare, have a good stash of healing consumables.

Healing can substitute for gear - run deep with healing.

Ed

We have a group of ten that run every year and have just started into the area of higher-end tokens. We've talked about doing harder runs, and moved up to Hardcore last year. This year we considered doing Nightmare, but one of our group was in a GT run this year and was freaked out about how close his group came to dying (especially being better kitted out than us).

We crushed both dungeons. Matter of fact, in SG we won initiative and killed every monster before they got to attack. We got a nice complement from one GM: "That's the most consistent damage output I've ever seen. The Sneak Attack was the only thing over 17 damage, but everyone hit. Everyone."

I think next year we'll run Nightmare...

Ryan Short wrote: I would LOVE to run a harder difficulty, but the way the system is set up if just one person wants to run normal, that's the way it has to be.

I hear ya.

I've developed a system for running my Nightmare runs, and I'm a bit of an ass about it, but it works for me:

* I buy all 10 tix for a run.
* I find players who want those tickets, and make arrangements to meet them at the sign-in desk before the run.
* Then I KEEP ALL THE TIX.
* When we meet, I confirm that w're all going to run Nightmare. If they change their mind, I don't have to give them the tickets. If they pre-paid, I can refund their money on the spot, and find someone else who wants to play Nightmare (or, hypothetically, I could ghost their tix.)

This also means that if someone agrees to run Nightmare and I give them their tix but they fail to show up to the run and their spots get filled by WaitList (yeah, that's happened) then we don't run the risk of wait-list people down-voting the difficulty.

I'm at the point where I feel like that's the only way it would work for my situation, which is a bummer.

But, maybe I'll give it a shot next year this way and see how it ends up.

Raven wrote: I'm a bit of an ass about it, but it works for me

Raven, I can think of many adjectives to describe you, but "ass" isn't one of them! You are literally one of the nicest, most pleasant people I have ever encountered in my life. That's not hyperbole.

Thank you, Druegar, and Quip.

But don't tell too many people. How am I supposed to be a cut-throat Thieves' Guild leader when people think I'm nice?

Raven wrote: Thank you, Druegar, and Quip.

But don't tell too many people. How am I supposed to be a cut-throat Thieves' Guild leader when people think I'm nice?

Because they think you are nice (me included) it let's you get away with murder.